Annoying early plothole

[CerebroDragon]

Perhaps this little nitpicking gripe shall come as sounding overly grumpy and unforgiving of the game, but for what its worth, here's the details from my latest game:

I should warn that this could be rather spoilerish to those who are just starting out in the game for the first time.

I quick saved just before the exit of the first Irenicus dungeon and had then exited to have the first linear dialog encounter with that said villain. During this exchange with the Cowled Wizards, Imoen, illogically belying her 16 or 17 odd intelligence, opens her trap and gets involved in the fight by pitifully attempting to magic missile Irenicus twice. This of course results in her being taken away by the Cowled Wizards and seperated from the party which is rather inconvenient for such an early period in the game. So I attempted to find a creative solution to this problem by saving, reloading the quicksave and using any last magic missiles left in Imoen's memorized spells on the encounter with the locked up Doppleganger. But alas no! How this idea was all in vain. The game's linear and forced early story line means that regardless of what she has memorised, she still manages to cast two magic missile spells out of nowhere. (I'm thinking her belt???) and so there is no other way to prevent her getting taken away, which I think isn't great roleplaying.

She is only half a mage, so casting spells at will as in third edition rules for sorcerors is out of the question. This situation has taken my irritability with Imoen to new heights unfortunately - I shan't be taking her on in the party if I can help it.

Its nothing against her personally of course as she is a wonderful character. But if she's going to keep secret hidden abilities away from my usage as party leader, then she'll have no place in my party.
So I'll invite everyone to tell their own annoying or entertaining plotholes as well, as I recall them being quite a factor in Bg2 last time around....

[Bill26]

It is not a plot hole. It is to keep the player from creating a plot hole. What do you think about Mr. Gath.

[Link]

SPOILER!!
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You cannot stop Gorion from getting killed in Baldur's Gate 1 either, although he casts his spells as if he's some kind of uber-mage (which he is not, otherwise he would've fried the masked figure easily)

Imoen's belt, on the other hand, is something else. Because Imoen is the thing you're going after, it would be kind of weird if she would die in the dungeon. That's why she runs when she's low on hit points. The belt she's wearing is just some nifty equipment that makes her invulnerable when she has naught but one hit point left. Just a little trick from Bioware's side to make the whole story believable (and codeable).

[ 12-31-2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Link ]

[CerebroDragon]

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. Although I think I spelled the case out for a small 'illogical linear hole' fairly well, for the sake of argument, I see a plot hole as being any illogical, unexplained, implausible or inexplicable event that results in an inescapable or seemingly 'predetermined' fate.

So are the extra magic missiles Immy has accountable? Well, I'll see what others think before coming to an absolute verdict, but as it stands for me, they are unaccountable in the game so far. Thus, again I nitpick, but it can only be an unexplained plot hole unless her belt is an unidentified belt of magic missiles or some crazy little thing like that.
I'm sure one could come up with other rationalisations for it as well.

But furthermore, I don't see how by passing the first encounter with Irenicus or another script line to allow one to prevent Imoen being taken away should induce a plothole, as he doesn't tell you anything integral to the story nor would anything be missing or unexplained. Unless you count the quest to track her down, which would be unnecessary obviously.

I've mentioned this one before ages ago on another forum I think, but another plothole I remember from my previous game involves the time-period during which the party approach Bodhi's hideout to kill her.
In this final encounter, no matter what time you approach the area - it is always nightime. One would think that if you got up at 6.am in the morning from an inn/area nearby, you could approach her hideout with a tactical advantage at your disposal - daylight. But no matter what, it is night and its obviously in her favour. I'm sure there's a cover up rationalisation for this as well to prevent whatever and so forth, but the fact remains that in terms of virutal world mechanics imitating reality, this is an illogical flaw.

Anyway, enough banter for now. Interesting to hear other thoughts.
Cheers,
Cerebrodragon

[Calsiumus]

That belt is a nice litle cheat to. just use the CLUA codes and you can never die..HAHAHAHA!.. sorry..
Spoiler for nay one who has not made it past chap4
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well its the same thing when you try to kill renal blodscalp after accepting from gaelen some gut pops up and kills you in seconds. but when you pick bodih he can be killed (not that i have ever played bodih)

[CerebroDragon]

Thanks for that Link.
Yeah, I tend to agree that its just a code thing based on whats feasible. I guess it just leaped at me a little more.
All apologies for going overboard!

[Ares]

Actually, I enjoyed your arguments as I've had same thoughts about this as well. You just managed to eloquently explain it, nice job.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by CerebroDragon: I've mentioned this one before ages ago on another forum I think, but another plothole I remember from my previous game involves the time-period during which the party approach Bodhi's hideout to kill her. In this final encounter, no matter what time you approach the area - it is always nightime. One would think that if you got up at 6.am in the morning from an inn/area nearby, you could approach her hideout with a tactical advantage at your disposal - daylight. But no matter what, it is night and its obviously in her favour. I'm sure there's a cover up rationalisation for this as well to prevent whatever and so forth, but the fact remains that in terms of virutal world mechanics imitating reality, this is an illogical flaw.

Yeah, I just did that part and found it a bit silly that we left the docks during the day and arrived at the graveyard at night. We must have taken the really loooong route . Although you wouldn't really be able to have a tactical advantage if you went in the daytime - surely Bodhi just wouldn't be there, as she wasn't when she summoned you the first time, so you'd just arrive to nothing and she'd ambush you when you arrived in her crypt.

[Rockstar]

it is not a linear plotline. why would black isle go all out of their way to make another silly, less compelling path? all fans would have done is whine at a later release date.

and YOU CAN KILL GORIAN!! i was my necromancer level 8 and summoned a ****load of spawnings (animal summon levels 1-3) to create a huge army to take the hits. he has some mega-powerful attacks and slaughtered them all in seconds but he fell with some magic missles and other nice things to encourage him [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Pirengle]

Originally posted by Rockstar: it is not a linear plotline. why would black isle go all out of their way to make another silly, less compelling path? all fans would have done is whine at a later release date.

Huh? BG1, SoA, and ToB are pretty linear. They don't fit in well with the rest of the Forgotten Realms universe, as IW and FR fans have proven multiple times, but as computer games they follow each other pretty nicely.

As for Imoen's magic missiles, Imoen's belt, Arkanis Gath, etc., this is the equivalent of a human DM planting a Tyrannosaurus Rex into a field to chase deviant characters back on the main road (and back to the matter--or quest--at hand). The DM will do anything from botching stats (Anomen) to tinkering with time itself (Graveyard shift) in order to preserve the precious plot.