Islam: The Religion of Peace

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I'm still waiting for a Muslim to speak for themselves, but there seems to be plenty of information about Islam on the internet to fill the void. They may not be posting because of the negative and harsh tone that has been flung around here concerning Islam. I know Ironworks is the kind of forum that frowns upon discrimination and disrespesct of differing religions, races, ect. I would hate to think that someone would avoid posting because they feel "pre-judged" or singled out. It is apparent that Islam, like Christianity may be interpreted as violent across history, but those that practice it as violent are an extreme minority. I think arguing over who was violent first or the longest is pointless. In both cases, violence is rooted in the human interpretation and/or supposition of the spirit behind seeking communion with the divine. It's all humanity's fault! Besides, from what I have studied, a Muslim is Allah's representative in the flesh. It behooves them to have qualities of moral character (kind, merciful, compassionate) and to seek justice for wrong-doing.

Chewbacca I've debated with Muslims on the net and in person. From what I've experienced they've had no hesitation in posting, just like anyone else.

As far as arguing about who was violent first etc. You're missing the point.

1.Islams exemplar and founder was a violent military leader.
2.Islam was violent at inception. Violent conquest enabled Islams rapid expansion and growth.
3.Islams assurance of salvation is Martyrdom.
4.Islam commands Muslims to live in peace....with other Muslims.
5.The Qu'ran gives strict detail about the violent action against non-Muslims, and forbids Muslims to take Jews and Christians as friends and confidantes, nor to receive their assistance. This is very clearly written in the Qu'ran.

Christianity on the other hand
1.Had a founder and exemplar who sacrificed himself so others would live, and who prevented his followers from committing violence to save his own life.
2.Was not violent until at least 300 years later when people in power began misusing a religion of peace and love to achieve political gain. Prior to that, persecution AGAINST Christians led to the faiths rapid expansion and growth.
3.Finds assurance of salvation through accepting Jesus death in place of our own.
4.Commands us to love our enemies and pray for our persecutors
5.Gives detail about how to live in peace with people - including our enemies.

[ 12-22-2002, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Djinn Raffo]

To the Gas! Is that what will provide an end to debate? If the Nazis had won the second world war and a systematic 'what if' of genocide was carried out upon the illegitemate peoples of the Earth.. wouldn't the Earth be such a peaceful place if we were all Aryans?

Some arguments.. can be very articulate but are still just so much crap as the one before.. seem to be saying that this is what the islam side wants.. Through violence the world will be one beacon of faith shining from the smile upon the face God and those who ensure that this is so.. live on through martyrdom.

It doesnt matter that both sides are just as, or have been as, violent as the other!

What matters is if you are willing to hug your brother and sister man and woman here and sing joyous songs just as cobra poises his fang between your back blades... and as he sinks that blade down into your spine.. as cobra sinks that blade down deep what matters is if you smile up at him/her with the one true love.. the Universe will not forget your sacrifice, nor forgive that you had to make it. What doesnt matter is the diss that verbal comeback that puts them in their place.. yo you do it with a sword and we.. we do it with love.. the end result is the same.

[ 12-22-2002, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: I'm still waiting for a Muslim to speak for themselves, but there seems to be plenty of information about Islam on the internet to fill the void. They may not be posting because of the negative and harsh tone that has been flung around here concerning Islam. I know Ironworks is the kind of forum that frowns upon discrimination and disrespesct of differing religions, races, ect. I would hate to think that someone would avoid posting because they feel "pre-judged" or singled out. It is apparent that Islam, like Christianity may be interpreted as violent across history, but those that practice it as violent are an extreme minority. I think arguing over who was violent first or the longest is pointless. In both cases, violence is rooted in the human interpretation and/or supposition of the spirit behind seeking communion with the divine. It's all humanity's fault! Besides, from what I have studied, a Muslim is Allah's representative in the flesh. It behooves them to have qualities of moral character (kind, merciful, compassionate) and to seek justice for wrong-doing.

Chewbacca I've debated with Muslims on the net and in person. From what I've experienced they've had no hesitation in posting, just like anyone else.

As far as arguing about who was violent first etc. You're missing the point.

1.Islams exemplar and founder was a violent military leader.
2.Islam was violent at inception. Violent conquest enabled Islams rapid expansion and growth.
3.Islams assurance of salvation is Martyrdom.
4.Islam commands Muslims to live in peace....with other Muslims.
5.The Qu'ran gives strict detail about the violent action against non-Muslims, and forbids Muslims to take Jews and Christians as friends and confidantes, nor to receive their assistance. This is very clearly written in the Qu'ran.

Christianity on the other hand
1.Had a founder and exemplar who sacrificed himself so others would live, and who prevented his followers from committing violence to save his own life.
2.Was not violent until at least 300 years later when people in power began misusing a religion of peace and love to achieve political gain. Prior to that, persecution AGAINST Christians led to the faiths rapid expansion and growth.
3.Finds assurance of salvation through accepting Jesus death in place of our own.
4.Commands us to love our enemies and pray for our persecutors
5.Gives detail about how to live in peace with people - including our enemies.[/QUOTE]Does a Muslims faith in God weigh as much as a Christians?

[ 12-22-2002, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[Draten-Master of Fire and Ice]

Raffo, you hit the nail squarely on the head...bravo!!! *lifts helm visor*

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: What matters is if you are willing to hug your brother and sister man and woman here and sing joyous songs just as cobra poises his fang between your back blades... and as he sinks that blade down into your spine.. as cobra sinks that blade down deep what matters is if you smile up at him/her with the one true love.. the Universe will not forget your sacrifice, nor forgive that you had to make it. What doesnt matter is the diss that verbal comeback that puts them in their place.. yo you do it with a sword and we.. we do it with love.. the end result is the same.

That's a very Christian philosphy you have there Raffo.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: Does a Muslims faith in God weigh as much as a Christians?

If I speak about Djinn Raffo, but in the process describe Mouse, am I still speaking about Djinn Raffo? Even if I use your name?

Djinn Raffo is from Scotland. He's a moderator on Ironworks, is agnostic, possesses a dry wit, is generally fair but will assassinate you if you are a Bard roming a Dungeon full of Dragons. I know this because when I was in France with Djinn Raffo, he did this too me while we were playing D&D.

Am I still talking about you Djinn Raffo?

A Rose by any other name still smells as sweet, but will two different flowers with the same name, smell the same?

[Djinn Raffo]

So what exactly did you just say?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: So what exactly did you just say?

You asked a question that contained an assumption. I challenged that assumption.

[Djinn Raffo]

I asked if a Muslims faith in God weighed as much as a Christians.

What was the assumption?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: To the Gas! Is that what will provide an end to debate? If the Nazis had won the second world war and a systematic 'what if' of genocide was carried out upon the illegitemate peoples of the Earth.. wouldn't the Earth be such a peaceful place if we were all Aryans?

I do not believe so.

If two people who love each other cannot coexist without conflict, what hope is there of world peace? Two brothers, a man and his wife, best friends, neighbours. All connected, bound together, desiring peace, yet fighting amongst each other from time to time. Some chronicly, others latently, others sporadically.

Conflict is an inevitable part of the human experience. What matters is how you deal with, and resolve that conflict - not making sure it does not occur at all.