Your favourite character (discussion post)

[otter]

Actually, what i did say to the DM in p&p D&D; "I'm going to practise my Music by busking in the marketplace for an hour or so." or the like. Got XP's for that stuff. It's just like in 'real' life, you're good at what you do because of the amount of time you've done it. Maybe it's a little too visible in the game, but imagine being L1, and barely decyphering a new Spellbook, and someone tells you you shouldn't practise...

[armakh]

Just to play the devil's advocate-In D&D, did you have the rest of your party sit at the inn for days upon days doing nothing so you could practice over and over again without them doing anything? Or did you practice as you had the time? Study your spellbooks by the campfire at night before you went to sleep?

[otter]

Well, if you had a good DM, there'd be something for everyone to do in town, and you could cover the whole training bit in a few playing minutes. In W-8, if im practising, all my party members have something to do, especially when i'm camping for more potions to mix. Behold, there are even practise ranges built in as one of the quests.
Do you remember how many times you had to do something (like throwing a curve ball, or double flip) before you could count on it in competition or performance? I remember music practise, that was boring; swim team was not boring, i suppose it's a matter of taste, but if my char's don't have the skills to match their levels, then i practise. I practise Casters up to their next Spell Level in Arnika, and i practise combat in the Monastery with cheap weapons against half-damage Slimes for days at a time. I like knowing i won't get creamed the second i hit the next Zone. Especially with fewer Characters; they level way too fast to go without any practise.

[Gimli]

Shouldn't there be a max though you can reach through "easy" practice? For example, say a Bard spends years down at a tavern performing, should he now be a 100 in music, ie, the most powerful bard possible? Or shouldn't that be considered "easy" work for the bard compared to going out and using music to create effects in the heat of battle where his life is at risk and his music saves him and his companions? Think about endless knock-knocks in that vein. Also some DMs will have you "train" to go up levels, but not to actually reach the level, you get there from adventuring, doing things that put your life in danger, and the training is optional to make gaining the level more "official", but all the training in the world without danger would not give you levels. What is supposed to make you great is all the challenges you overcome, all the new experieces you get from actively adventuring.

[fung]

I for one agree that there are flaws in the way wiz 8 works.

1) Practicing, simply put this is a good idea if and only if you play the game the way its supposed to be played. i.e. cast out-of-combat buff spells when they expire or casting knock knock once to open chest etc. However, right now this feature can be exploited by players i.e. casting knock knock continously. There is a guide i think on Avenstars site that teaches ppl how to make a power bishop, i.e. a bishop with 100 in all the realms and schools asap.

I personally think the game would be much better if the charcs. get more skill points to distribute upon level up. but skills don't improve with practice.

2) Some professions and races are far overpowered and some underpowered. In theory Wiz 8 is supposed to have great replay value coz of all the different races and professions available. But in reality there is little or no reason to aply any other spellcaster besides a bishop. And in reality there is little reason to use any melee charc. besides a fighter(berserk)...The faerie ninja with CoC i outlined above is one of the only melee charc. that can compare with a fighter in terms of melee effectiveness (very high chance of poisoning and instant kill), a well eqiuipped rouge can also compare with a fighter...but as far as I can see lords, valks, monks etc. don't really haave much going for them.

[armakh]

1. Ok, I agree and disagree with Fung on this one. I definitely like the fact that you can increase your skills through daily practice. This is one thing that really separates Wiz 8 from other games, and I like that. And on my own grounds, I think that practicing can be very very abused. But I also think that some spells were put into the game for the very purpose of allowing practice, spells such as mindread, charm, shadow hound. For my own playing, I'll practice spells when I have extra time, like waiting for Antone to finish a custom piece, or when I am entering an area I know will be tough. For instance, I will go to the Trynton mana fountain, and keep on trying my spells until I get all my good party buffs up to full str. The added bonus of this is practicing my divine realm with my valk and sam (I'm running 4-way valk, sam, monk, nin) with remove curse. As soon as I get all my buffs up, I'll leave and go where I need to go. That is practicing with a purpose, and IMHO, the kind of thing the developers wanted, or maybe just a tiny bit of abuse. But my ideology prevents me from "power training." Just the way that I work, and my opinion

2. I agree-a decently-developed bishop, for my gaming style, is the only caster that I need. And this helps me to have more room for hybrids *grin* I definitely disagree about hybrids not having much going for them. Monks with their MA are awesome. They may not do as much raw damage as a berserking fighter, but they always go first, get up to 18 (usually at least 10) chances at a critical for about 15-30 damage each hit, and they usually do about 150 damage per round. They also knock out a lot more opponents than my fighter does, and often early in the round to prevent attacks. In my 4-person party, my valk's cheat death has come in very useful. I'm not that big on lords and valks in general, but the polearm bonus is really nice, and I don't have to worry about saving my valk when she's low on hp-also very nice. And having secondary buffing characters that don't have the low hp and stuff of pure casters is invaluable. There's something to be said for the jack of all trades-master of none character. On paper and put one-on-one, a fighter may outdo a hybrid, and a bishop may outdo a hybrid. But in terms of value to a party, I think the opposite is true. Ok enough rambling.

[Wereboar]

I very much agree with Oru about his bishop building. I do about the same, since i don't like the 'cheat training'. A few points:

I usually try to max int and pie first, then go for dex and vit. High int and pie is important to raise the realm skills.

High senses (and dex) is only useful to raise your psionic (or alchemy) skill through training. It has no effect on the realms, and on spellcasting. Ignore it.

Bishops can use quite some armor, and a shield. Then use a whip as your waeopn, or none at all (only a sling, and no autoswap).

For the crabs: They have extended range. Thus if you move up to where your fighters can hit them with short weapons, they can hit your back characters. Just don't move near, use extended weapons and slings/bows, and your spellcasters are pretty save.

With two bishops, i give each 2 main realm. But with a single one, i push alchemy to 15 only, and then let it improve by potion mixing. When wizardry or divinity is high, i come back to alchemy.

[Wereboar]

Originally posted by armakh: 1. Ok, I agree and disagree with Fung on this one. I definitely like the fact that you can increase your skills through daily practice. This is one thing that really separates Wiz 8 from other games, and I like that. And on my own grounds, I think that practicing can be very very abused. But I also think that some spells were put into the game for the very purpose of allowing practice, spells such as mindread, charm, shadow hound.

Yes, i too like the way that the skills improve by use. It was stated in wizardy 7 to be the case, but IMO it was much less important.

But the spells you mention are IMO in the game, because they were in it in Wiz7, and the developers didn't notice that they are that abusive.

I never needed charm in wiz8. One click on 'friedly', and every yellow NPC turns green. In wiz7, you started with much worse relations, and had to charm (or bribe) some NPCs several times to be able to talk to them.
Mindread was very important in wiz7, unless you knew the secret word 'hint'. You somtimes didn't get important information without it. In wiz8, i used it only a few times, since it seemed to give no useful information.
Shadow hound is very important for surviving (at least i found in wiz7, where it was called watch dog). Without it, monsters disturbing your rest may kill half of your party before they are awake.

[el_kalkylus]

I like what's powerful, and that is bishop and fighter (normally dualclassed in some way).

[SecretMaster]

Fav Char in my party 1st time round was my Gnomish Gadgeteer named Galdaar. My fav guy, blastin away with the Vaporizer and Jackhammer. He was also a great shot with the Musket and Omnigun.