Ignorant People

[Sazerac]

Christ himself said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Meaning (as how I saw it), not to ascribe the evil actions of this world to God's working, but to throw it back onto the true perpetrators of the evil.

Both Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, through their unmitigated arrogance, presume to understand intimately the innermost thoughts and motivations of the mind of the Divine presence. In doing so, they are rendering Caesar's (the world's) works unto God (the Infinite). THAT is their sin, their "hubris" if you wish to call it that. Those petty, foolish, quavering little chunks of cosmic debris! How DARE they assume to understand the Infinite! Their "crime" is multiplied by however many people who follow them that are led away from a true understanding of God (or Spirit, if you wish).

Ziroc, I agree with you fully about them being Cyric worshippers...although, with as much money as those two peckerwoods pull in each year, they should be worshipping Waukeen as well!

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[250]

I love Waukeen!!

hey, so it is like those two people are making some kind deal with God, right?
"I will be good, be loving, would you promise to take care all the evils for me?"




[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Cloudbringer]

So, we should probably start a Shall we worship 250 and Waukeen thread? teehee...LOL!

I think others are right, here. Scott never meant this to be a Christian-bashing thread, and I'm afraid it may be degenerating. So maybe Dramnek, if you still want to discuss this, you could start a new thread or find a religion one like "Yorick ?" and read it and then post if you want. I'll try and bump that up. But let's get back on topic for the poor thread!

Saz, your comments, as always, are right on the money! Falwell and company HAVE taken it upon themselves to act as sole representatives of the Almighty and tha's lack of humility of the highest order.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[250]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: So, we should probably start a Shall we worship 250 and Waukeen thread? teehee...LOL! Cloudy

ok, that is a good start

[Scott]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: So, we should probably start a Shall we worship 250 and Waukeen thread? teehee...LOL! I think others are right, here. Scott never meant this to be a Christian-bashing thread, and I'm afraid it may be degenerating. So maybe Dramnek, if you still want to discuss this, you could start a new thread or find a religion one like "Yorick ?" and read it and then post if you want. I'll try and bump that up. But let's get back on topic for the poor thread! Cloudy

Thank you Cloudy. I want to make it clear to everyone that I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST SANE CHIRSTIANS. By sane I mean people who don't kill homosexuals, or bomb abortion clinics, or assume everyone but them is going to hell.

Most religions, at the core, are very good things. People, however, tend to use them for either a ploy for power (the Inquisition) or money (televangelists). Humans aren't perfect, and there will always be someone to exploit the situation.

That being said, I think that most people are basically good. Some may be annoying, or pushy, or judgemental, but most people mean well. We get into fights on this board sometime, but the members involved usually end up apologizing to each other and move on. I don't think anyone here could kill someone or something like that, and I think the world is like that too. Evil will always exist, but we have to move on.

Oh, and thanks to the people who recognized Penguin Boy. Makes me feel special.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by 250: so i take that I answered your questions since you no longer question me I think we pretty much know what to do, because God had set some examples we love we care we give compassion we give sympathy we respect we tolerate we trust correct? are you saying "how do we know what to do" as in daily based actions? well, then sorry, God doesn't tell you that, and in a way, he does you don't have to understand how God thinks, but these virtues are the guidence of God, you live by it. that means, we know what we do, even though we don't understand God's plan.

Within their own species/families, even animals do all those things. They don't need any god to tell 'em so. It is a matter of survival. Imho, humans have turned natural survival behaviour into religious directives.

And, btw, if you are familiar with the bible you should have a pretty good idea of 'god's plan'.

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[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Sazerac: Christ himself said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Meaning (as how I saw it), not to ascribe the evil actions of this world to God's working, but to throw it back onto the true perpetrators of the evil.

Actually, Saz, Jesus was talking about paying taxes! But it also means giving governemts and those in authority what 'belongs' to them, - and to give worship and primary obedience to god.

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[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Gosh! Last time I noticed, I was Lord Soth! And it was hardly any time at all since I was a white dragon! I LIKED being a dragon. Sigh!

Still, an' all - Lord Ao ain't bad!

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[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: how does not intervening in human lives help? Justify how letting people die tragic and pointless deaths means he loves us, and why does god allow people to commit evil in his name? non-intervention is just a flismy excuse to try and expalian why there is no real evidence that god exists. If there was proof of his existence E.g he manisfested an avatar before my eyes, i would be able to make an informed decesion on whether to be a christian but since there is no evidence we have to put blind trust in the idea that a god exists. [This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-16-2001).]

Personally, I believe in 'god' in the sense of a living, evolving universe, which is a little different to many people's thought on this subject. However, to reply to your point - if there was a god separate from ourselves, how could s/he be perpetually intervening? That would be like a parent with a three year old, always having to say 'no', 'if you do that Mommy will smack!', 'put that down now!', 'if I have to tell you just one more time....', and so on and so forth. Be realistic. What do you want, - every time someone picks up a knife, god should whirl it out of their hands? Everytime someone raises a hand to another, god should exact retribution? What would be the point? We would have no free will at all, - no free will means no opportunity, to learn, to develop, to be who we have the potential to be. People learn by their mistakes, don't forget! We learn by experience.

We are not children, we are adults. We also don't much like being told what to do. If god came around every time there was a problem and fixed it for us straight off, we wouldn't be grateful, never think it!, we'd be telling him/her where to get off.

Plus - how many times have your parents or someone in authority told you not to do something because it might harm you? When I was younger, it was enough for someone to tell me something would be good for me, for me to go off and do exactly the opposite. Like I said, mostly, we need to learn by experience.

So far, collectively, we don't seem to be making a brilliant job of it, as witness the shape the planet is in. But we've made great progress in some areas, and there's a lot of hope, I believe.

But think for a moment, - who caused all the mess in the world, the hatreds, the suffering, the starvation, the child abuse, the kids with their limbs blown off by landmines, (need I go on?) Us human beings. It's got nothing to do with any 'god'!! We've got a gorgeous planet to live on, brains capable of remarkable feats of ingenuity and inventiveness, potentially fabulous bodies, if we took care of them...... we could do better than this......

Collectively, we need to grow up as a race, and start taking responsibity for ourselves. Whether you believe in god or not, it's our planet, its citizens are our people, and its down to us to sort ourselves out. Not god.

There is a way forward, and a cure for what ails all of us at a deep level. It's called LOVE. Maybe when we've suffered enough, we'll start realising that it doesn't HAVE to be this way, and start showing more love, to more people, instead of indifference, or hatred. Perhaps we could start with ourselves. If you don't love yourself, you sure as hell won't have too much to spare for the rest of the suffering world, let alone helping with the healing process.


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[Tobbin]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Personally, I believe in 'god' in the sense of a living, evolving universe, which is a little different to many people's thought on this subject. However, to reply to your point - if there was a god separate from ourselves, how could s/he be perpetually intervening? That would be like a parent with a three year old, always having to say 'no', 'if you do that Mommy will smack!', 'put that down now!', 'if I have to tell you just one more time....', and so on and so forth. Be realistic. What do you want, - every time someone picks up a knife, god should whirl it out of their hands? Everytime someone raises a hand to another, god should exact retribution? What would be the point? We would have no free will at all, - no free will means no opportunity, to learn, to develop, to be who we have the potential to be. People learn by their mistakes, don't forget! We learn by experience. We are not children, we are adults. We also don't much like being told what to do. If god came around every time there was a problem and fixed it for us straight off, we wouldn't be grateful, never think it!, we'd be telling him/her where to get off. Plus - how many times have your parents or someone in authority told you not to do something because it might harm you? When I was younger, it was enough for someone to tell me something would be good for me, for me to go off and do exactly the opposite. Like I said, mostly, we need to learn by experience. So far, collectively, we don't seem to be making a brilliant job of it, as witness the shape the planet is in. But we've made great progress in some areas, and there's a lot of hope, I believe. But think for a moment, - who caused all the mess in the world, the hatreds, the suffering, the starvation, the child abuse, the kids with their limbs blown off by landmines, (need I go on?) Us human beings. It's got nothing to do with any 'god'!! We've got a gorgeous planet to live on, brains capable of remarkable feats of ingenuity and inventiveness, potentially fabulous bodies, if we took care of them...... we could do better than this...... Collectively, we need to grow up as a race, and start taking responsibity for ourselves. Whether you believe in god or not, it's our planet, its citizens are our people, and its down to us to sort ourselves out. Not god. There is a way forward, and a cure for what ails all of us at a deep level. It's called LOVE. Maybe when we've suffered enough, we'll start realising that it doesn't HAVE to be this way, and start showing more love, to more people, instead of indifference, or hatred. Perhaps we could start with ourselves. If you don't love yourself, you sure as hell won't have too much to spare for the rest of the suffering world, let alone helping with the healing process.

Hear, hear. Well said. Your analogy of God is what I was trying to get across in my weak attempt. God is not mortal. Why should God think as we do? Perhaps who we are overall defines GOD too.

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