People who are clueless

[Garnet FalconDance]

Thanks for posting the link, Blade. Now I know what my homeschoolers list was on about this morn!

Yep, folks will believe just about anything bad about something they don't understand. Fear of the unknown generally turns to hate at some point.

Point: New Year's Eve, hubby and I decided to go shoot some pool locally. As soon as I walked into the door, I was cornered by a very drunk woman spouting off about how I'd 'turned Trish into a witch'in a very loud voice. First off, ain't possible to 'turn' someone into a witch. (I *did* initiate her.) Then the woman ranted on and on (for like 20 min) about how she knew all about voodoo dolls and ouija boards...yada, yada, yada....and if we two ever got together, we'd be a couple of powerful evil bitches. ::rolls eyes:: When I *finally* got a word in edgewise, I told her #1, I don't dabble in black magic since I deem the price too high and #2, I was quite powerful enough without black magic *or* her. I am a Healer, not a Destroyer. Geez!

Best thing for us, pagan or any on a more specific pagan path, is to just go about our business in a normal fashion. Leave the sensationalism to those who lust after the limelight. Sooner or later they'll tire and fade away. And we'll still be quietly living our lives the way we feel moved to.....

[Garnet FalconDance]

Epona, no offense at all! I'm just tickled there's someone else in the world who knows the true (i.e. not the usual textbook stuff) history of some of these more controverisal times.

Fable, I decided that I am who I am. The pentacle doesn't signify *me*, it is an outward reflection of a part of me--and a signal much as the fish symbol identified early Christians to each other. I am a solitaire by nature as well by necessity. That's fine.

Funny thing is, I don't even think about certain things any more: I had to call the sheriff a couple months ago (a 21 yr old has been threatening our 12 yr old daughter--no clue why but this time she brought it to my door). Didn't even think about the grapevine pent hanging above the seasonal altar in the kitchen or the Kuan Yin altar in the living room. And I *really* disregarded the presence of several bags of herbs I'd just purchased and hadn't put away--basil, pinon pine, raspberry leaf, etc. (normally I get these in bulk but bought small pkts for extra)--all over my desk where we were standing! The deputy looks down and sees these little baggies full of green leafy substances......(of course, they were label-side down). Talk about fast talking!

I don't discriminate against Christians or Jews or Muslims, or any other people simply because they pray to a different deity than I. In return, I expect the same consideration. Sometimes I actually get it.

[fable]

Epona, no offense taken. [img]smile.gif[/img] The problem is that while you would understand the sources and appreciate them, nearly everybody wouldn't, regardless of language. And Gibbon certainly gets across the flavor of Christianity of the times; while the accessibility of his book makes it a primary source. I know it has its flaws, but in the current instance, it also has its uses.

Garnet, how does your husband respond to your religious practices? My wife's a lapsed Methodist who views all ritual with derision. Understandably, I can't take her into a circle, though I'd dearly love to. We have great respect for one another, but--this is a very personal thing, and I'd cringe at unintentional ridicule from the person I most love in my "home zone," so to speak. Yet she's perfectly accepting of armoatherapy and therapeutic touch, because as an RN of twenty-odd years, she's seen 'em work time and again; and they were initially presented in a non-New Agey environment. This can't carry across to Wicca, of course; there's no way one can logically discuss religion without killing it.

[Garnet FalconDance]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:

Garnet, how does your husband respond to your religious practices? My wife's a lapsed Methodist who views all ritual with derision. Understandably, I can't take her into a circle, though I'd dearly love to. We have great respect for one another, but--this is a very personal thing, and I'd cringe at unintentional ridicule from the person I most love in my "home zone," so to speak. Yet she's perfectly accepting of armoatherapy and therapeutic touch, because as an RN of twenty-odd years, she's seen 'em work time and again; and they were initially presented in a non-New Agey environment. This can't carry across to Wicca, of course; there's no way one can logically discuss religion without killing it.

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I'm very fortunate in that hubby decided on his own that paganism was the Path for him as well. He's 'garden variety' and a much nicer person than me [img]smile.gif[/img] so he keeps me from brewing up too much trouble. We have mostly Wiccan friends (of the pagan crowd, that is) and ocassionally we attend rituals with them, though inwardly sometimes I cringe at the sunshine-and-light approach to everything. (yep, I guess I'm a little too cynical.) I get some flack for my decidedly *not* white-light approach, noticeable esp with the events of 9-11. But all in all, we all meet and have a wonderful experience.

He would like to learn more of my Path and join in rituals with me, but as a self-taught solitaire, I have yet to figure out how exactly to implement this. sounds silly, doesn't it? A grown woman who has taught children as well as other adults and yet who can't figure how to teach her beloved? But it's *so* important for me to share this with him that I don't want to inadvertedly mess it up or cause him to feel belittled in any way.

Since aromatherapy is an integral part of my business as well as my life, I can understand what you mean. It's hard sometimes to remember if I'm supposed to be speaking of the medicinal values of XXX or the magical properties. [img]smile.gif[/img]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:
Of course, there are also some pagans who make matters much worse. Some go out of their way to offend traditional Judeo-Christians; others are not pagan at all, but "commercial pagans," people in it for the publicity and money; and others misrepresent the religions they claim to follow. This Wiccan Priestess named "Witch" seems to belong the last category. The name itself seems to be an extravagant gesture designed to attract attention in a Judeo-Christian culture.

Kind of sad, really. There's no good reason why people of diverse religions simply cannot tolerate one another's presence, even when they find no commonality of purpose. But religion is a touchstone, and reveals less about the object of worship than it does about the inner balance of the worshipper, in every case.

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There is a KEY issue here that I thought should be pointed out.....
When you are a MINORITY do NOT throw sticks at the tigre (ie don't piss off the majority) Tread lightly, and work subtly and your more likely to have positive results..Greenpeace types have the same problem, they all have a bad rap because of a militant few......If you can't be intelligent enough in promoting your views to use common sense strategy and tactics then you deserve to fail.

I don't like the "Majority" Judeo-christian/Islamic/Bhudist/Hindu majority slammin Pagans, but I also cant change the fact that the majority always rules and almost alwyas wins in the end..the only way to become the majority is to subvert from within..working within defineed parameters and not drawing enough IRE to cause you to be squashed like a bug.

[Garnet FalconDance]

Fable,

*That's* where we've gone wrong....we were supposed to be *subverting from within*! Geez! [img]smile.gif[/img]

MagiK, does that mean the bubbling cauldron effect is a little too out-there to work?

[fable]

Magik, your words of sympathy are appreciated. [img]smile.gif[/img] I would add, however, that I have absolutely no desire to subvert the majority, or to become it. I'm just as happy worshipping either solitaire or in a small coven--not one "ruled" by some distant public relations witch--and being left to my gods and my religion.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:
Magik, your words of sympathy are appreciated. [img]smile.gif[/img] I would add, however, that I have absolutely no desire to subvert the majority, or to become it. I'm just as happy worshipping either solitaire or in a small coven--not one "ruled" by some distant public relations witch--and being left to my gods and my religion.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

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As I said in the Religion thread, I tip my hat to you and aGarnet you both have a far deeper well of knowledge on religion than I do. You have forced me to go digging through my books to look at things I havent seen in about 10 years or so [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Garnet FalconDance]

quote:

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Originally posted by MagiK:



As I said in the Religion thread, I tip my hat to you and aGarnet you both have a far deeper well of knowledge on religion than I do. You have forced me to go digging through my books to look at things I havent seen in about 10 years or so [img]smile.gif[/img]

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It's not so much that we know more about religion--it's just that when you belong to the minority, it behooves you to be as knowledgeable as possible so you can intelligently refute misconceptions!

[Barry the Sprout]

The thing that most struck me about that article was when they had a quote of a Christian saying something like:

"I've not seen a single study showing Witches can rehabilitate prisoners.".

Anyone else notice that this might have more to do with the fact that she is the FIRST wiccan chaplain. What would these reports he is after be based on? I almost laughed out loud when I read it, until I realised just to what extent people will go to to discredit a religion. I am a Christian but I can't see the point of stamping so hard on other religions.