When to move to Elite Roles?....Opinions welcome!

[frostg1ant]

Well, I played whack a Rumphy a few times tonight, and got my characters up to sixth level. I have joined the guilds and here are my characters with clan and role info:

Female Human Warrior (would like to go Valkyrie eventually)
Male Lizzord Warrior (Samaurai? Ninja? Ranger?)
Male Gourk Warrior (Barbarian?)
Male Whiskas Priest (Monk?)
Male Oomphas Wizard (Warlock)
Male Ratling Thief (Ninja?)

So, what do you guys/gals think? The picture is kind of cloudy for me on when to ascend to an elite role and which to choose for each character? Is sixth level too soon? How do spell levels for the spellcasters factor in? Some members of my party are better suited than others for certain roles based on abilities and skills I guess, but there are a few that could go either way. Are certain clans better at certain roles?

I would like to eventually try for an Assassin, Valkyrie, and Zenmaster, but I don't have a clue on which clan and role would best be a fit for these higher classes.

If this information would spoil any suprises in the game, then I will be happier not knowing.

Thanks!

frosty

[Sazerac]

Okay, here's the scoop:

Valkyrie and Zenmaster aren't going to be available to you until almost endgame. You'll probably want to do something else with your female warrior before then...maybe like Ranger or Samurai or Paladin.

The rest sound like good choices...except be careful of the "Monk" ascension. It's one of the most aggravating ascensions in the game, and you really don't gain that much by it. You may be better off with a "Paladin" ascension for your Priest. It's up to you.

Taking the Thief to a Ninja is a good idea...you may also want to consider later down the road an Assassin role. You do that with a "special quest" available just outside Ishad N'ha.

Sounds overall like a good plan!

-Sazerac

[This message has been edited by Sazerac (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Sazerac]

Okay, just one more thing: Wait until at least 12th level before changing the spellcasters. You can change your Warriors ASAP, but your spellcasters need to get their high-level spells before you change roles on them, unless they go to a supporting role. The Warlock is the only one that isn't that big an issue, because you can continue to learn all supported spellbooks after ascending...but it will take a lONG time to learn all those spells!

-Saz

[Radek]

You cannot gain the following roles in Valeia:
a) Bard: Serpent Temple
b) Samurai: Shurugeon Castle
c) Ninja: Shurugeon Castle
d) Monk: need to reach Bushi Dojo guild (Ishad N'ha)
Therefore, choose between Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, and Warlock. You can change role again later if you want. My own feelings about the roles above:
Paladin - the best fighter available in Valeia.
Ranger - rather worthless: bad fighter, bows in W&W suck. Well, he gains Vinecraft and later on, he can bring bags of money completely legally (the Fletchery Trait and the Dragon Arrow).
Barbarian - if you need HP. Bad Parry stat.
Warlock - a "must" intermediate role for any character that can excel in magic.
As far as the level is concerned: Pick some elite role as early as possible because it improves your character and brings new skills. Change the (intermediate) elite role if you reach level 13 or so. The reason is skill points: you will need approximately the same amount of experience points beween levels 1 and 13 and between levels 13 - 15. You get 12 skill points beween levels 1 - 13 and at most 12 skill points beween levels 13 - 15.

[Davros]

I usually aim to transition all characters through :

1) Paladin when they can be level 5(??) temple guild at Ishad so they get the Crusade trait

2) Warlock in Ishad - when all the invokable strength amulets are available from the "rat packs"

3) Ranger at warrior guild level 5(??) to get the fletchery trait.

I then typically round off their training by stints as either Samuraii or Assassins. Those are my thoughts.

Regards
Davros

[Fantaghiro]

I've noticed that a lot of new players seem to think they can only ascend their characters to one elite role. However, I think there's a lot to be gained in having your characters experience as many professions as they can. I agree with Sazerac that you shouldn't promote your magic users too early (learned at great cost, with my Warlock) but I think fighters should start enjoying the benefits of Elite roles as soon as they fulfil the criteria; my three specially-rolled warriors took the Barbarian quest as soon as I started the party.

Since the amount Experience points needed to rise to the next level greatly increases as the levels increase, by the time your character is level 15, it takes like 150,000++ XP to get to level 16 (depending on the role). Put it this way, since my two Samurai reached Level 15, my Ninja switched to Assassin and is a few hundred XP off Level 9 and, greatly impressed by the rapid gaining of skills, a little later the Bard gave up her singing career to experience life as a Ninja, and has just achieved Level 7. The Samurai, however, still need 97,000+ XP to achieve Level 16! Meanwhile the new Assassin and Ninja have have rapidly raised their Sword, Second Weapon and Sneak skills to 12 and have the best Bless and Enchant stats of any of my party.

The new Ninja had this progression: Warrior -> Barbarian (Lvl 5) -> Paladin (Lvl 12) -> Bard (Lvl 15) -> Ninja (Lvl 7). Because she got the Crusade trait while a Paladin, she's racking up those XP points very quickly in Skull Castle! They've had to go back to town every few minutes, it seems, to spend up on skills, traits, etc. each time she levels. She's trying to convince the Samurai to become Ninja, but they're reluctant to loose the XPs they've already gained at Lvl 15 and will only consider a change once they've achieved Lvl 16. They've become so self-righteous, those two!

The progressions of the Samurai have been:
1) Warrior -> Barbarian (Lvl 7) -> Paladin (Lvl 12) -> Samurai (Lvl 15)
2) Warrior -> Ranger (Lvl 10) -> Paladin (Lvl 11) -> Samurai (Lvl 15)

The new Assassin's progress: Rogue (Lvl 10) -> Ninja (Lvl 16) to Assassin (Lvl 8). She's experienced less roles than the others, due to not being able to join any guilds before Ishad N'Ha and then, because I'd installed the patch, the party spent ages arguing over who should take the Assassin's Dagger! Plus, she was having such a fine time as a Ninja (loves hiding in those shadows)! But, she's DEFINITELY loving every second of being an Assassin! Her one regret is that she didn't spend some time training as a Paladin so that she, too, could enjoy the benefits of the Crusade trait. Something to consider on the replay, I guess.

Anyway, part of why this game is so brilliant is that you can experiment endlessly in developing your characters but remember, you can't go back to a profession that you've already trained in.

Have fun experimenting!

[This message has been edited by Fantaghiro (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Fantaghiro: Anyway, part of why this game is so brilliant is that you can experiment endlessly in developing your characters but remember, you can't go back to a profession that you've already trained in.

Unless, of course, you "Reset Adventures"...sets everything back to square one and you can go to prior roles again, except for the one you're currently in.

Very good discussion, Fantaghiro! You brought up some excellent ideas.

Also, to the others on the board...don't dismiss the Bow weapons. If you get the Dragon Arrow, bless it up with Hit and Damage at the Temple, and use it with a Ranger character, quite often he can slay several monsters with well-placed shots before they even get close. I'm having a blast with my Elven Ranger/Ninja this time...I'm sacrificing the "2nd hit" for right now while I blast away at distant monsters with the Dragon Arrows. He slayed a Mountain Spider with one arrow just last night!

-Sazerac

[Radek]

I changed the roles this way:
Wizard (level 1) -> Warlock (level 1) -> Paladin (level 1) -> Ranger (level 1) -> Barbarian (reset adventures).
As far as the warlock is concerned, do not fear him. You can change the role later if you want. I must still insist on the early role gaining. You get new traits and skills and you can decide later what you want to do and change the role again. Every wizard should become a warlock as soon as possible (fiend and moon magic) and then decide what he wants. Every fighter should become a paladin, a barbarian or a ranger as soon as possible to improve his fighting abilities. Again you can decide later what you want to do with him.
DO NOT FORGET THAT RESET ADVENTURES CLEARS ALL INACTIVE ROLES! Therefore, you can return to a previously chosen role. All you need to do is a little planning your strategy and using your brains during the character training. Then you reset adventures for the last time and set out.