The word "Oriental" is being banned from the English language ?

[/)eathKiller]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: does anyone on here that may be of Asian decent feel bad when a person says that you are from the Orient? Do you feel bad when referred to as Asian? Can you please teach all of us the correct way to refer to your land and heritage?

Ok First of all, let me put it this way:

When you say Oriental to an Asian it's like calling a Russian a Soviet. The Orient is an old time word that the british made up to refer to an area they, themselves had not fully discovered or could possibly understand yet. Its not Oriental that annoys most asians though... it's when you designate an individual from any asian nation as being from another.

At least 75% of Americans don't know the differince between China and Japan... that really ticks Japanese people off. I doubt the Chineese mind but that's because they're impartial to being confused wtih anything, they've been called everything from Manturian to people of Shangai. anyway... The word Orient i think mainly is centered around the mainland part of Asia and i'm not perflectly certain on its oragins but it sounds like a word the British would make up. I mean if you ever had an american call a guy from Scotland a Brit, don't you think he'd be a little ticked off? Well that was just a bizare analogy. Anyway, when was the last time you heard of people from England being refered to in English as being European? See! Asians want that kind of respect when they are refered to, not as some Oriental folk, or sometimes even as Asian people, Japanese like to be refered to as Japanese its simple as that. Koreans like to be called Koreans, im sure they even prefer the North or South be designated in their racial background, Vietnamese, Tai, all of them want to be refered to as the nation they originate from, not just some odd generalization. Even People from Mexico don't get called Americans though they are from South America! Are you getting my point here?

[Sir Goulum]

Yes I understand. We would then have to say North South East West with east in French or something

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: Eh? I have never seen 'Oriental' as an offensive word, or used as such, and truth be told, I find the term kinda spunky. The Orient Express, Come see the sights of the Orient, etc... ... In fact, the word invokes imagery of exotic locations. I see it as a positive word.

It's a pretty catch all term, really. What do we mean by it? What races are 'covered'? It smacks of exotic, slant eyed houris... and so on and so forth. I don't know what the banning is about, heard nothing, however, I refer you to a book called 'Orientalism' by Edward Said.

Basically, his premise is that the West made up a whole series of 'stories' about the 'Orient', which didn't have a lot to do with how the citizens of the nations concerned saw themselves, or with objective reality, for that matter.

I quote him - Orientalism - the 'institution for dealing with the Orient, by making statements about it, authorising views of it, by describing it, by teaching it, settling it, ruling over it: in short, Orientalism as a Western style for dominating, restructuring and having authority over the Orient.'

Said makes particular reference to late 18th and 19th century academic treatments of the 'Orient', which portrayed the countries concerned in a very particular way, and which still inform the way we see 'the Orient' today.

It's a word that is little used nowadays, at least in Britain, which I would say has a lot to do with the fact that due to global media communications, we actually know far more about the countries that make up that mythical 'Orient' and so the stories have, by and large, faded away.

As for banning it as a word, I don't see the point, really. What does banning entail? Do you get fined if you say it? [img]smile.gif[/img] Or is it a meaningless concept because cannot be enforced?

[ 07-02-2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]

[WillowIX]

Just a thought.. Do you use the world oriental a lot? I mean isn´t Asian more common? Except in prefumes and commercilas of course, lol... And deathkiller, the word probably ended up in the english language from the days when the uk was a roman province. (No offense please since it not meant in that way!!)

[Sir ReGiN]

Originally posted by /)eathKiller: quote: Originally posted by Larry_OHF: does anyone on here that may be of Asian decent feel bad when a person says that you are from the Orient? Do you feel bad when referred to as Asian? Can you please teach all of us the correct way to refer to your land and heritage?

Ok First of all, let me put it this way:

When you say Oriental to an Asian it's like calling a Russian a Soviet. The Orient is an old time word that the british made up to refer to an area they, themselves had not fully discovered or could possibly understand yet. Its not Oriental that annoys most asians though... it's when you designate an individual from any asian nation as being from another.

At least 75% of Americans don't know the differince between China and Japan... that really ticks Japanese people off. I doubt the Chineese mind but that's because they're impartial to being confused wtih anything, they've been called everything from Manturian to people of Shangai. anyway... The word Orient i think mainly is centered around the mainland part of Asia and i'm not perflectly certain on its oragins but it sounds like a word the British would make up. I mean if you ever had an american call a guy from Scotland a Brit, don't you think he'd be a little ticked off? Well that was just a bizare analogy. Anyway, when was the last time you heard of people from England being refered to in English as being European? See! Asians want that kind of respect when they are refered to, not as some Oriental folk, or sometimes even as Asian people, Japanese like to be refered to as Japanese its simple as that. Koreans like to be called Koreans, im sure they even prefer the North or South be designated in their racial background, Vietnamese, Tai, all of them want to be refered to as the nation they originate from, not just some odd generalization. Even People from Mexico don't get called Americans though they are from South America! Are you getting my point here?[/QUOTE]But why not ban the word 'asian' too then?
isn't oriental a necessary word? It is supposed to be used as a generalization, and if some people want to describe an asian person that they don't know which country (s)he is from then they'll have to use a generalising (sp?) word.
People will always use generalising words, for instance I've met many americans (both South americans and North) who refer to everybody from Europe as europeans regardless of what country they're from.
Now if they use oriental as a degenarating word, then it's a whole nother story

And the 'orient' is the orient. There is no other word for what you want to describe when you use it (at least in Sweden there isn't) 'cause when you talk about the orient you don't just talk about the land as such, you talk about the mystique, the spices, the tales you name it! It's all woven in there, so I don't see how anyone can find it degenerating really.

[ 07-02-2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Sir ReGiN ]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Sir ReGiN: isn't oriental a necessary word?

Nope. It's meaningless in real terms (see my post above). If you don't know where someone comes from, how about you ask them? [img]smile.gif[/img] I've heard it used to refer to Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Thais, Singaporease...... it's so catchall it's totally meaningless. Could be applied to about 2/3rds of the world's population, at a guess. Take a bit of trouble and get specific, is my advice.

And all this about the mystique and the spices, ahem. What do you mean about mystique, exactly? Are we back to the veiled houris, here?

[ 07-02-2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Silver Cheetah ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: ~~ Singaporease ~~

Singaporeans.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: quote: Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: ~~ Singaporease ~~

Singaporeans. [/QUOTE]Oops. Ta bab. :blushes:

[slackerboy]

could it be that you slightly misunderstood the conversation and rather thnn saying that the word was to be removed from the language, they were actually discussing the trend our language is taking in that most references where the word orient, or oriental would be used, the word asian is typicaly used instead now?
I had noticed this a while ago. the term oriental has pretty much fallen by the wayside. I dont really see signs for oriental resturaunts anymore. they are always either "asian" resturaunts or they specify : chinese, japanese, thai, etc...
its possible that was the actual topic of the discussion rather than an intentional attempt by some group to actually remove the word.

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Are we back to the veiled houris, here?[/QB]

Yes, please. Make mine a double...