matters of the spirit

[Azred]

I've been down the "this world is the only world and there is nothing else" path. Ultimately, it is incredibly unfulfilling and tends to make one incredibly sarcastic, cynical, and bitter.

I grew up under a particular faith, but I found that it didn't suit me. Eventually, I began reading a lot of stuff--Zen, Catholicism, Hinduism, Islam, and comparative mythology (mostly Campbell). Cerek is right when he said that your "soul" is looking for something "bigger"; it almost becomes fun when you realize that it almost doesn't really matter which path you choose--we all wind up in the same place. As long as you're honest with yourself, you'll know when you have found your own path. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[K T Ong]

Originally posted by Blade: Most importantly all say it again be yourself don't try to conform to a religion that doesn't suit your outlook or view of thing you will only frustrated and demoralized.

Originally posted by Azred: I've been down the "this world is the only world and there is nothing else" path. Ultimately, it is incredibly unfulfilling and tends to make one incredibly sarcastic, cynical, and bitter.

Fully agree -- though sheer peer pressure can still steer you away from your own search and impose on you a belief you didn't want to adopt. And the "this world is the only world and there is nothing else" path is a very popular path nowadays -- especially among us East Asians, mind you...

Cerek is right when he said that your "soul" is looking for something "bigger"; it almost becomes fun when you realize that it almost doesn't really matter which path you choose--we all wind up in the same place.

I suppose that may be true, but before you reach that place you'll still need to take into account the topography of your own personal preferences. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[The Hierophant]

Some great replies so far. All of you seem to be giving genuine thought to spiritual matters and I havn't seen a single flame or 'holier-than-thou' post. Excellent [img]smile.gif[/img]

KT Ong and Cerek: You both seem to be genuine spiritual pilgrims, walking a path of inquisition and not allowing dogmatic indoctrination get in the way of the direction you feel you need to take. It's very heartening to see [img]smile.gif[/img]

Blade: Religion certainly has always had (and definately still has) a place within society (well, at least within the Judeo-Christian society)in giving hope and a sense of stability to the disheartened. Personally though I'm very wary of churches that try to impose a strict set of rules upon how a person should and shouldn't live, particularly those that claim 'live this way or you'll suffer later!'. To me it just smacks of human dictatorial tendencies and doesn't reflect a genuine interest in the exploration of the human spirit. But, that is just the way I see things now, perhaps with time I will grow to understand how the church (Particularly the Presbytarian church, which is very strong where I live) operates with greater clarity.

Azred: I know what you mean, the notion that all there is is this experience and nothing else is a little disheartening. Personally I wouldn't even need a belief in the afterlife to allay my qualms (eternal sleep sounds just fine to me [img]smile.gif[/img] ), just some sort of indication that there is some sort of greater force that holds this existence together. That it is not all just a circumstantial fluke. And yes, I agree with you that honesty toward one's self and in the search for one's place in the world is vital to understanding just what that place is and how it fits into a phenomonally greater system.

Humility, honesty, compassion and patience seem to be what the doctor orders on this one [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Blade]

Yeap couldn't agree more about being turned off about people saying "This is the only way and all others will suffer". Just today for instance in the middle of campous there was someone saying we were all the sons and daughters of sinners and if we didn't embrase Christ we were all going to hell [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] all i could do was shake my head. No single religion in my opinion is totally correct or totally wrong, wrather they have all seen the devine and through the ethics of the founders they founded a religion off of it. So its my understanding that if a "god" or "gods" do exist all religions worship the same ditie(s) so how could one be more right then the next. As long as you live a moral life, at least moral by your own standards then i believe you will have a good afterlife whatever you believe that after life is.

P.S. Don't worry about anyone trying to convert you or flame you Z and the almighty choc don't let that happen on their boards . Besides we are an open community with people from every religion and area here so if you ask questions about anything at all usually you will get kind and very informative replyes.

[K T Ong]

Just thought I'd ask you folks a question -- if you're still following this, that is. [img]smile.gif[/img] What is it that prompts you to believe there is this 'something greater', whether you call it 'God', 'Spirit' or whatever? This is not a challenge, just a question. I've already given an answer -- and I have others up my sleeve, too -- but for now how about offering yours?

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by K T Ong: Just thought I'd ask you folks a question -- if you're still following this, that is. [img]smile.gif[/img] What is it that prompts you to believe there is this 'something greater', whether you call it 'God', 'Spirit' or whatever? This is not a challenge, just a question. I've already given an answer -- and I have others up my sleeve, too -- but for now how about offering yours?

For me I guess it's an inbuilt feeling of smallness. That my actual material size is grossly disproportionate to the vastness of this existential plane. This leads me to wonder as to just whether or not we are as important as we (usually) think we are, or whether we are just smaller pieces to a vastly more complex puzzle. Just perpetual and overbearing curiosity really.

[K T Ong]

A sense of awe in the face of this vast Universe, in other words, yeah? [img]smile.gif[/img]

There's one more thing, too; it is not only the awesome immensity of the Cosmos, but the extreme complexity of creation as well. It has been calculated that the odds against the chance formation of the 2,000 enzymes found throughout the biosphere from their constituent amino acids are figures of such magnitude as to span roughly 40,000 digits if written out in longhand. In view of this, it becomes a positive strain on the imagination -- for me, anyway -- to believe that life could have arisen by pure accident from the random combinations of particles in a void. Life is not an accident.

It's a very interesting Universe we live in, Hierophant.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by K T Ong: It's a very interesting Universe we live in, Hierophant.

Oh yes. Oh yes it is
Too bad this flesh-and-blood body cannot even begin to comprehend it all.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by K T Ong: Just thought I'd ask you folks a question -- if you're still following this, that is. [img]smile.gif[/img] What is it that prompts you to believe there is this 'something greater', whether you call it 'God', 'Spirit' or whatever? This is not a challenge, just a question. I've already given an answer -- and I have others up my sleeve, too -- but for now how about offering yours?

I was raised as a Christian. I've gone to church fairly regularly since I was a child, so I've always believed in God. But that is not why I believe in God now.

I believe in God now because I have personally felt His presence in my life. He has provided for my every need (spouse, children, home, job). All of these came directly from Him. He has answered every prayer I've offered to Him and I've even "heard" His voice in direct answer to prayer before.

Five years ago, I had to have emergency surgery to save my life. After the operation, the surgeon told my wife and mother that I still would not survive the next 72 hours without a miracle. I later learned that many, many people were praying for me back home during my surgery. I knew nothing about, but God heard their prayers and spared me for reasons of His own. Had I died, my oldest son would never have really known me (he was only 8 mos old at the time) and my other two boys would never have been born.

Blade - I can fully understand your feelings towards the person preaching on campus. One of the biggest injustices we do as Christians is harp on the punishment for not accepting Jesus rather than explaining the dynamic and wonderfully loving relationship Jesus develops with those who accept Him. I agree with the message he was bringing, but I just shake my head in disappointment at how that message is delivered.

Jesus was about LOVE and acceptance, not denial and punishment. I only wish more Christians could focus on this aspect of God's message. I didn't have this exciting relationship with God until after I accepted Jesus as my Savior. Before that, I was simply "going through the motions" and church, God, and the Bible didn't mean very much to me at all. Jesus brought it all together for me.

That's why I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit now.

allow me to give you the shamanic point of view

the body is unimportant. it's a vessel, nothing more. The spiritual cord leads from your "third eye" to the spirit to connect it while "alive".

there are many things you can do when you realise your spirit and become aware of it (too much to go into here). As for heaven and hell? well since the astral is pretty much manipulated by your mind, people that expect to go to hell will see heel when they die, etc..

and before you ask, we enter the astral every night in our dreams