How Can This Happen In The USA Today?

[Timber Loftis]

Wulfere, I think you're talking about the Racketeering laws - RICO. They were passed to target organized crime, and they did in fact kill the La Cosanostra mob (though others still rage strong). But, yes, they are often abused.

Once the feds have a law that allows them to make money, they go for it. A department in the gov. looks very good if it can *make* some money. Same with EPA and those absolutely ludicrous $25K/day fine for failing to file a piece of paper.

[Wulfere]

Thanks Timber Loftis.
I had always wondered about that interview and if he wasn't hyping the info to make the book more frightening than it was. That part, I might add, is what did scare me. Now I can go to the folks I was talking with about this, who didn't think that the governemnt could do things like that and tell them I have some confirmation. Koontz did mention that they were a part of RICO. I had forgotten that. That they had origionally been ment to go after Drug Kingpins and Organized Crime. But, that now they are being used more and more to go after Joe Public and the lower level criminals.

Originally posted by Wulfere: Bush sr used them somewhere around 50,000 times and Clinton even more. The laws have been expanded to more than 250 different crimes and are being expanded to cover more and more crimes

I think it is completely unfair and inaccurate to use this phrasing. Neither Bush Sr. nor Clinton or Bush Jr. for that matter use these enforcement tools. If you must blame someone blame the Justice Dept. and I would bet the DEA was the agency behind most of the uses. So blame Justice and the Judicial branch of government more than the presidents.

[ 03-04-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[pritchke]

I am not sure if they can seize your home up here if you allow someone in who has drugs on them but it would not surprise me. I am thinking about frisking anyone who walks through my door, if it is true. I do know that if you have a party and someone is drinking, than leaves and drives, you (the host of the party) could be held responsible if that drunk driver has an accident and hurts himself or someone else.

It seems no one is held accountable for their own actions anymore, the blame and punishment shifts to others who are unaware. (As if the owner of the home forced a person to drink and drive).

Was the cop ever punished for lying in court, and causing damage to innocent people because of his bigotry?

[ 03-04-2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Pritchke you and I agree 100% on that particular issue. Everyone these days is a victim not responsible for their own actions A very sad state of affairs if you ask me

[Charlie]

Originally posted by pritchke: . It seems no one is held accountable for their own actions anymore, the blame and punishment shifts to others who are unaware.

Sorry to cut your quote and take you slightly out of context re your complete reply.

It seems to me that you have hit the nail bang on the head regarding the original case. The people still in prison carrying the blame and suffering the punishment were unaware. Seems at this time neither Tom Coleman *SPIT* nor his employers nor the whole US judicial system are accountable.

There really is very little difference between the death sentence and these sentences. The main difference being that the victims would be buried, the families would have grieved and moved on. As it stands the families are still mourning their dead (but not yet dead) loved ones. How must the loss of a breadwinner feel. What must be the cost of a 400 or 500 mile trek to a poor person to visit a loved one? There are so many people suffering over one single individual (in essence) it's outrageous.

[Timber Loftis]

[quote]Originally posted by The Hierophant:

Well, quite simply, the USA as a whole isn't all that 'advanced'. Some areas are highly industrialized, with complex judicial systems and a genuine level of cultural refinement. Others are essentially still living in the 1800s, with all of the old hatreds and primitive methods of social control (ie: fear, segregation, privilege). Being way out in the backwaters allows for some outrageous travesties of justice, as you have pointed out. Out of sight, out of mind.

Well, (1) offense taken. (2) I'm filing this away so I can waive it around next time someone gets thrashed by a mod on the War Forum for degrading people from other countries. Pot - Kettle - Black. And you are just *how* informed about the US living in Christchurch?

[Timber Loftis]

A further footnote to the whole "take your home" stuff. Don't let chicken littles scare you too much. Unless the CA version of the law is waaayy different than the federal RICO racketeering law, you don't lose your home unless it could have possibly been ill-gotten by the illegal activity.

And, it's not so much that they arrest someone in your home - it's about tying the home and other property purchases to illegal acts. Yes, the tie can sometimes be too attenuated. Yes, RICO is harsh. Yes, CA look-alike laws are also likely harsh.

But, I think I can safely say that it would be a rare law in this country if somebody sparked up a doobie [img]graemlins/smokybounce.gif[/img] in your home and that automatically forfeited your ownership. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] Oooops - I shoulda used a cocaine example. California hasn't arrested anyone for smoking pot in, what, 60 years?

[ 03-04-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Yo! The Heirophant...umm you obviously have not been to this country. I have driven east to west from coast to coast (Philly to San Diego) and north to south (Maine to Florida and CA. to Washington) and lived in Minnessota in the mid west Actually I have lived in 10 different states in 15 different locations. Even in the back hills of the Appalachians I have never seen anyone living at 1800's level of technology or backwardness. Electricity, Medicine and automobiles prevail everywhere that I have been. The USA is not as you paint the picture kiddo.

[pritchke]

I think you guys may be taking The Hierophant out of context slightly. The cop in question probably still thinks he is fighting the civil war and thinks we should still have slavery and things. The majority of people are not like that however and we have people up here to who are raciest as well. I believe we have come a long way as people from the 1800's although not everything has changed for the better. In the 1800's no one would be suing McDonalds, or the local pub for selling them unhealthy food, or suing the neighbour because his kids ball smashed a window. Then it would be "Don't worry about it neighbour, bring your wife over and we will make you a fine meal." In some things we have probably gotten worse, less neighbourly, more childish, less respectful of each other, less willing to be responsible for our actions. I don't know, I do think many things have changed for the better but some things make it seem like the world is going to the dogs. I believe there are some nasty bigot's in New Zealand as well who think they living in the 1800's but I don't live there but I am sure the Hierophant would agree.

[ 03-04-2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]