who said this?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: lol... if you felt addressed then you should look into yourself why. but isnt that what is happening right now in the us, britain, etc... the opposers to war are called unpatriotic and that they are putting their country in danger? the nazis were the propaganda masters, and obviously their strategies are still being used to promote war and qwell disent.

I have looked into myself, and I'm just fine with myself and my position on the issue, and I can appreciate opposing viewpoints, but you, on the other hand, seem interested in belittling those who have chosen action against Iraq.

Of course you point relies completely on the fact that nothing we've heard is true, and it's all propoganda.

[ 03-18-2003, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Sir Taliesin]

Good response Ronn!!! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] I think we should give NK twelve years. Just think what they could do with that! HALE (as John D. says)they might even develope a Hydrogen Bomb for export by then. Just think what Saddom could do with one of those puppy's if we gave HIM twelve more years like some here seem to want to!

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Quote: Originally posted by norompanlasolas: lol... if you felt addressed then you should look into yourself why. but isnt that what is happening right now in the us, britain, etc... the opposers to war are called unpatriotic and that they are putting their country in danger? the nazis were the propaganda masters, and obviously their strategies are still being used to promote war and qwell disent.

I have looked into myself, and I'm just fine with myself and my position on the issue, and I can appreciate opposing viewpoints, but you, on the other hand, seem interested in belittling those who have chosen action against Iraq.

Of course you point relies completely on the fact that nothing we've heard is true, and it's all propoganda.[/QUOTE]mhh... i cannot see where i belittled those who have chosen action against irak. i didnt even mention them. i just posted a quote, and if you read again, made no remarks about it (in about my 5th post in this forum, so im guessing youre talking about this thread). if you perceived it as an offense, then the more power the quote has in itself, doesnt it?

regarding my point... propaganda goes both ways (most common examples, "those not for war are unpatriotic", and "this war is for oil"). i find both quite silly, but one far more dangerous than the other.

anyways, war is upon us. people will die. the chicken hawks will be happy (i read that expression somewhere and found it amusing). lets hope its over quick like everybody says and irak is not made into much rubble. and then peace again... well, at least for a while, then its iran, then syria, then north korea, then...

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: mhh... i cannot see where i belittled those who have chosen action against irak. i didnt even mention them. i just posted a quote, and if you read again, made no remarks about it (in about my 5th post in this forum, so im guessing youre talking about this thread). if you perceived it as an offense, then the more power the quote has in itself, doesnt it? I didn't take it as offensive. I found it a ridiculous comparison because it assumes that we are being misled, so my sarcastic remark was based on the fact that the Nazi-like propoganda you're suggesting isn't what has convinced the American public. We aren't sheep. We never have been, and we never will be. Let's be real for a minute here. You said "history repeats itself...." and you were comparing the quote to the current situation. It doesn't matter how many times you've posted here. Posting that in this forum was making a statement and you know it. If you weren't making a point, why did you post it? You posted it because you WERE making a point. There is no need to deny it. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion on the matter. [img]tongue.gif[/img] regarding my point... propaganda goes both ways (most common examples, "those not for war are unpatriotic", and "this war is for oil"). i find both quite silly, but one far more dangerous than the other. Your point on propaganda is true, but my government has not said or implied that those who oppose military action are unpatriotic. My president has said those who protest here and abroad have that right. No one here and no one I know personally is saying opposing military action in Iraq is unpatriotic. anyways, war is upon us. people will die. the chicken hawks will be happy (i read that expression somewhere and found it amusing). lets hope its over quick like everybody says and irak is not made into much rubble. and then peace again... well, at least for a while, then its iran, then syria, then north korea, then...

Hawks aren't happy at the prospect of war, they just realize it's necessity. War isn't a game or a ploy or a device. It's people dying, and no one wants that, but some are willing to accept that at times war is necessary.

Let's do hope it's over quick, and lets hope that once it is the rhetoric you voice about other nations being "next" can be put to rest.

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I didn't take it as offensive. I found it a ridiculous comparison because it assumes that we are being misled, so my sarcastic remark was based on the fact that the Nazi-like propoganda you're suggesting isn't what has convinced the American public. We aren't sheep. We never have been, and we never will be. Let's be real for a minute here. You said "history repeats itself...." and you were comparing the quote to the current situation. It doesn't matter how many times you've posted here. Posting that in this forum was making a statement and you know it. If you weren't making a point, why did you post it? You posted it because you WERE making a point. There is no need to deny it. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion on the matter. [img]tongue.gif[/img] well, its not that ridiculous to me. people can be misled, even more good intentioned people. regarding making a point... i guess youre right. i was making a point, though my intention was to make people think about it. [img]smile.gif[/img] Your point on propaganda is true, but my government has not said or implied that those who oppose military action are unpatriotic. My president has said those who protest here and abroad have that right. No one here and no one I know personally is saying opposing military action in Iraq is unpatriotic. true. i did read loads of opinions saying so though. a lot less moderate than you of course. Hawks aren't happy at the prospect of war, they just realize it's necessity. War isn't a game or a ploy or a device. It's people dying, and no one wants that, but some are willing to accept that at times war is necessary. Let's do hope it's over quick, and lets hope that once it is the rhetoric you voice about other nations being "next" can be put to rest. but it is not me making that rethoric. you should check the opinions in your govt and some of your media regarding "whos next".

[ 03-18-2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: norompanlasolas ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: well, its not that ridiculous to me. people can be misled, even more good intentioned people. regarding making a point... i guess youre right. i was making a point, though my intention was to make people think about it. [img]smile.gif[/img] People CAN be misled, and it doesn't matter if they are on the side of war or peace regarding this issue. There are people on BOTH sides of this issue willing to deal in misinformation to acheive their goals. [img]smile.gif[/img] true. i did read loads of opinions saying so though. a lot less moderate than you of course. Yes there is alot of extreme right wing stuff out there, and the media pays LOTS of attention to it, but there are extremes in every stance. No one here is ready to accept that kind of ridiculous behavior. At least no one who is reasonable, and the overwhelming majority of Americans are reasonable. Those who espouse those hateful views are not indicitive of all America. but it is not me making that rethoric. you should check the opinions in your govt and some of your media regarding "whos next". Don't take propaganda too seriously. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Even IF the US leaders were out to conquer the world, the US public isn't interested.

[ 03-18-2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: mhh... i cannot see where i belittled those who have chosen action against irak. i didnt even mention them.

Yes you did, norom - just a few posts prior to this one in fact. Here it is again, to refresh your memory...

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: lol... if you felt addressed then you should look into yourself why. but isnt that what is happening right now in the us, britain, etc... the opposers to war are called unpatriotic and that they are putting their country in danger? the nazis were the propaganda masters, and obviously their strategies are still being used to promote war and qwell disent.

You specifically mentioned the U.S. and Britain and then claimed "the strategies of the nazis were still being used to promote war and quell dissent". That's a pretty straightforward statement that the U.S./U.K. are behaving like Nazi Germany.

As Ronn said, if you want to make a statement, then make it and be big enough to stand behind it. Don't try to be coy and play childish games of implied guilt on our part through feigned innocence on your part.

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: i just posted a quote, and if you read again, made no remarks about it (in about my 5th post in this forum, so im guessing youre talking about this thread). if you perceived it as an offense, then the more power the quote has in itself, doesnt it?

For the sake of clarification, this is what I'm talking about when I say "implied guilt through feigned innocence". You claim you simply posted a generic quote and that if anybody took offense to it, then it must be because the statement is true about them.

That is no more valid an argument than claiming that the only people opposed to involuntary spy-ware being installed on their hard drives are those that actually have something to hide.

I'm sorry, but the argument of "implied guilt" does NOT lend extra validity to your statement. Also, as I pointed out....your post was not nearly as "objective and generic" as you claim.

In your opening post, you closed with "History is repeating itself". Later, you specifically mentioned U.S. and Britain in comparison to Nazi Germany. There is nothing "generic" about either of those statements...they are directed at specific targets.