Innocence repaid

Sparhawk · 05-12-2004, 03:01 AM

Well again I am shocked at the USA...this time on a smaller scale but still shocked none the less.

It struck me as odd that so many people supported the death penalty! But hey thats okai by me...I don´t live there so I don´t risk anything unhealthy

It DOES however shock me to see that people that have been imprisoned unjustly for many many years of their lives are only given an APOLOGY upon release.

in other words...( my example )

Bob is 22 years old and makes small crimes.
Bob is sentenced for two murders ( he did not commit )
Bob gets 127 years pr. murder ( equals 254 years for the two murders )
Bob serves 34 years and then some idiot is nailed for the same crime on DNA evidence.
Bob is now 56 years old...he has thus spent more than ½ his life in the prison
All Bob will get is an appolpgy...probally a letter since it is doubtful that anyone in power would like to see the man in the face!

How can you have a society that not only despenses death penalty...but doesnt even PAY UP when a mistake is made...?

I know that some states have included a clause that reimburses wrongly prisoned people...but it is not good anough!

My own dad was jailed for a murder some years back...it took the police a phenomenal two days to contact the POLICEMAN that could give my father an alibi and thus he was released...and paid 1000 dollars in excuse!

The Hierophant · 05-12-2004, 03:17 AM

uh,... what? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

So, you're making an accusation of injustice... and the evidence you back it up with is a hypothetical example that you made up yourself? Eh?? [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img]

Gnarf · 05-12-2004, 04:48 AM

I don't think the example was provided as evidence...

The Hierophant · 05-12-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gnarf:
I don't think the example was provided as evidence...

Heh heh. You're probably right. Is he, Sparhawk?

Khazadman Risen · 05-12-2004, 09:54 AM

What case are you referring to? Here in Virginia we just released a man who served time for a crime he did not commit. And upon release was given something like a million and a half bucks.

Sparhawk · 05-14-2004, 10:02 AM

The hierophant...no evidence intended *SS*

Khazadman look at my post again and see that I actually wrote that some states DO reimburse...but only 12 states does that afaik

Timber Loftis · 05-14-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

All Bob will get is an appolpgy...probally a letter since it is doubtful that anyone in power would like to see the man in the face!

First, as was pointed out -- you've got your facts wrong, in many instances, the people get money. Second, this would be a problem with or without the DP -- same problem occurs in life sentence or any other case where the innocent party must serve time.

Finally, look at it this way -- at least society got a 34 yr. respite from the ongoing antics of a two-bit hood. If Bob was, as you describe him, already a small-time criminal at 17, there's an enormous likelihood he would have just been causing mischeif, fathering welfare children, committing crimes, and being a general public nuisance.

I know, I know, "Timber, you can't make assumptions, generalizations, and stereotypes like that -- it's illogical and unfair, you mean old meanie." Yeah, yeah, whatever, I'm evil, get over it. Or, maybe I just see much of this day in and day out, that it makes more sense to deal in practicalities. Sure, there is a 2% chance Bob wouldn't have been a loser, and we should give Bob every opportunity to f* up his life for himself. Whatever.

Thoran · 05-14-2004, 10:43 AM

There's no such thing as a perfect justice system, mistakes will be made. If you have a strict system then you WILL jail innocent people, if you have a lax system then you will let guilty go free. The key is finding the balance between putting as many as the baddies away as possible and as few of the good guys. I always feel bad for anyone innocent who's jailed, and in many cases they have recourse when they're cleared, but I think the negative ramifications of trying to create a system where no innocent ever goes to jail would be dire indeed.

Now the death penalty is subject to the same rules, only it's a bit more permanent. Have innocent people been executed? No doubt... but if the deterrance value saves lives then perhaps it's worth it. The problem I've got with the death penalty is that I doubt it's effectiveness. I've never seen a decent study on the efficacy of the death penalty as a deterrance to violent crime. (not that I've looked too hard)

[ 05-14-2004, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

Sparhawk · 05-14-2004, 07:54 PM

Well the part of death penalty was just me vomitting again over that absurd punishment...but...

Timber...I certanly hope you get to experience the system on your own body if that is truly you view on the system...I would not call you evil...perhaps the word "pragmatic" is better...I mean I know I am naive to suggest that people actually think about it...and I am certanly not without thoughts of differing ways myself...with that I mean that I also believe that some people should die...but there is a loooong way from thinking it...to doing it...

And no matter what happens I am sure that the fair thing would be to pay UP...when people are jailed by mistake...

I can´t see where I was wrong though Timber...

Anyway...I need to go back to my TV and watch the beloved Wedding of Frederik and Mary

Aussies RUUUUULE!!

Skunk · 05-14-2004, 08:01 PM

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a country in the world that has set a national standard for the adequate compensation for the victims of injustice. Most people end up having to fight it out in the courts if they want more than a few dollars for serving several years (and a lot of their compensation money often ends up in the hands of the lawyers who fight the case for them).

It would be nice if governments could think up a better system.

05-12-2004, 03:01 AM	#1
Sparhawk Quintesson Join Date: June 2, 2001 Location: In the oldest monarchy - Denmark Age: 46 Posts: 1,071	Well again I am shocked at the USA...this time on a smaller scale but still shocked none the less. It struck me as odd that so many people supported the death penalty! But hey thats okai by me...I don´t live there so I don´t risk anything unhealthy It DOES however shock me to see that people that have been imprisoned unjustly for many many years of their lives are only given an APOLOGY upon release. in other words...( my example ) Bob is 22 years old and makes small crimes. Bob is sentenced for two murders ( he did not commit ) Bob gets 127 years pr. murder ( equals 254 years for the two murders ) Bob serves 34 years and then some idiot is nailed for the same crime on DNA evidence. Bob is now 56 years old...he has thus spent more than ½ his life in the prison All Bob will get is an appolpgy...probally a letter since it is doubtful that anyone in power would like to see the man in the face! How can you have a society that not only despenses death penalty...but doesnt even PAY UP when a mistake is made...? I know that some states have included a clause that reimburses wrongly prisoned people...but it is not good anough! My own dad was jailed for a murder some years back...it took the police a phenomenal two days to contact the POLICEMAN that could give my father an alibi and thus he was released...and paid 1000 dollars in excuse! __________________ "Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius. There was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world. Hither came Conan, the cimmarian, sword in hand. It is I, his chronicler who knows well his saga. Now let me tell you of the days of high adventure!" "Unleash the Casey!" "Make no mistake, should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be looking at an outcome that will have a finality, that is beyound your comprehension. And you will not counting the days or the months or the years, but milleniums in a place with no doors!"

05-12-2004, 03:17 AM	#2
The Hierophant Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: May 10, 2002 Location: Dunedin, New Zealand. Age: 42 Posts: 2,860	uh,... what? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] So, you're making an accusation of injustice... and the evidence you back it up with is a hypothetical example that you made up yourself? Eh?? [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] __________________ [img]\"hosted/Hierophant.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Strewth!

05-12-2004, 04:48 AM	#3
Gnarf Emerald Dragon Join Date: February 6, 2003 Location: Norway Age: 38 Posts: 928	I don't think the example was provided as evidence... __________________ I want a hippo.

05-12-2004, 09:54 AM	#5
Khazadman Risen Manshoon Join Date: May 4, 2004 Location: The Glorious South Age: 62 Posts: 174	What case are you referring to? Here in Virginia we just released a man who served time for a crime he did not commit. And upon release was given something like a million and a half bucks. __________________ I\'m reminded of the words of Socrates who said.... I drank what?<br />C. Knight

05-14-2004, 10:02 AM	#6
Sparhawk Quintesson Join Date: June 2, 2001 Location: In the oldest monarchy - Denmark Age: 46 Posts: 1,071	The hierophant...no evidence intended SS Khazadman look at my post again and see that I actually wrote that some states DO reimburse...but only 12 states does that afaik __________________ "Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius. There was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world. Hither came Conan, the cimmarian, sword in hand. It is I, his chronicler who knows well his saga. Now let me tell you of the days of high adventure!" "Unleash the Casey!" "Make no mistake, should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be looking at an outcome that will have a finality, that is beyound your comprehension. And you will not counting the days or the months or the years, but milleniums in a place with no doors!"

05-14-2004, 10:43 AM	#8
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	There's no such thing as a perfect justice system, mistakes will be made. If you have a strict system then you WILL jail innocent people, if you have a lax system then you will let guilty go free. The key is finding the balance between putting as many as the baddies away as possible and as few of the good guys. I always feel bad for anyone innocent who's jailed, and in many cases they have recourse when they're cleared, but I think the negative ramifications of trying to create a system where no innocent ever goes to jail would be dire indeed. Now the death penalty is subject to the same rules, only it's a bit more permanent. Have innocent people been executed? No doubt... but if the deterrance value saves lives then perhaps it's worth it. The problem I've got with the death penalty is that I doubt it's effectiveness. I've never seen a decent study on the efficacy of the death penalty as a deterrance to violent crime. (not that I've looked too hard) [ 05-14-2004, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

05-14-2004, 07:54 PM	#9
Sparhawk Quintesson Join Date: June 2, 2001 Location: In the oldest monarchy - Denmark Age: 46 Posts: 1,071	Well the part of death penalty was just me vomitting again over that absurd punishment...but... Timber...I certanly hope you get to experience the system on your own body if that is truly you view on the system...I would not call you evil...perhaps the word "pragmatic" is better...I mean I know I am naive to suggest that people actually think about it...and I am certanly not without thoughts of differing ways myself...with that I mean that I also believe that some people should die...but there is a loooong way from thinking it...to doing it... And no matter what happens I am sure that the fair thing would be to pay UP...when people are jailed by mistake... I can´t see where I was wrong though Timber... Anyway...I need to go back to my TV and watch the beloved Wedding of Frederik and Mary Aussies RUUUUULE!! __________________ "Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius. There was an age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world. Hither came Conan, the cimmarian, sword in hand. It is I, his chronicler who knows well his saga. Now let me tell you of the days of high adventure!" "Unleash the Casey!" "Make no mistake, should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be looking at an outcome that will have a finality, that is beyound your comprehension. And you will not counting the days or the months or the years, but milleniums in a place with no doors!"

05-14-2004, 08:01 PM	#10
Skunk Banned User Join Date: September 3, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 62 Posts: 1,463	To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a country in the world that has set a national standard for the adequate compensation for the victims of injustice. Most people end up having to fight it out in the courts if they want more than a few dollars for serving several years (and a lot of their compensation money often ends up in the hands of the lawyers who fight the case for them). It would be nice if governments could think up a better system.

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