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[G3MM4]

In your opinion, which race/class would be best for a good party for IwD/HoW? I find the combinations a bit confusing when starting a new game.

[Calagari]

Welcome to the forums G3MM4.
For starters I would reccomend doing a search on past posts under parties.

Then if you are lucky either Noble Nick or Aerich will see your post and help you further.

[G3MM4]

OK thanks. Although I have seen some topics on parties, they were for exisitng parties. I'm only asking about creating a party - what's the best combinations? Having said that I will search.

[Aerich]

There are many, many combinations, and the vast majority will get you through the game quite nicely.

Here's a basic template for a six-character party (seeing from your above post that you have HoW):

1) a pure fighter
2) a warrior subclass (ranger or paladin)
3) a thief, multiclassed with fighter or mage
4) a druid
5) a cleric
6) a bard

There are endless variations, but you'll likely want representatives from the four "types": warrior (fighter, ranger, paladin), priest (cleric, druid), wizard (mage, specialist mage), and rogue (thief, bard).

In the above example, a druid or cleric can be dual-classed with fighter to make a tougher party - NobleNick is a great proponent of this. IWD/HoW is a fighting-intensive game, so a balance leaning to the fighter side is nice. You can also multi-class. A good variation on the above would be this:

1) Fighter - dwarf (for 19 Constitution), human, or gnome (can use a great helmet later in the game)

2) Paladin - human; take longsword, as there is a great one later in the game just for paladins.

3) Thief/Mage - I'd make this a multi-class - a gnome thief/illusionist is nice, but an elf or half-elf T/M will do well.

4) Fighter/Druid - a multi-class (half-elf) to start off. NobleNick will disagree, but at your stage of expertise, the multiclass is easier. It's hard to roll a good Fighter/Druid for dualclassing, and you also have to know when to dualclass the character. Also, the extra healing spells will come in handy for you in the early stages of the game as you become more familiar with it.

5) Cleric - any race, but I prefer humans - it just seems more appropriate. A pure cleric (e.g. no multi- or dual-classing) is nice for the defensive spells, healing, and turn undead ability.

6) Bard - has to be human or half-elf. An excellent support character - they get songs to boost your party (especially when they hit level 11), can use longbows, can pick pockets (letting your thief ignore that skill and specialize in the other three), and can cast spells (taking some pressure off your multiclass mage).

Hope this helps. Don't be shy about posting more questions or requests for clarification.

[G3MM4]

Thank you. I have at present four fighters, a thief and a cleric. So I will try these combinations when I go through the game a second time. I'll post more information about my present party tomorrow, as it's late now.

[ 10-23-2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: G3MM4 ]

[Calagari]

Don't forget about the Mage. he is very useful.

Originally posted by G3MM4: Thank you. I have at present four fighters, a thief and a cleric. So I will try these combinations when I go through the game a second time. I'll post more information about my present party tomorrow, as it's late now.

[G3MM4]

OK, I wanted a tougher party for my first time through the game. So this is what I've got at the moment. I've reached and completed most of Vale of Shadows(without dying...!). These are part of the text files I've outputted:

Name......................... Hurgrar Drolar Gender....................... Male Race......................... Dwarf Alignment.................... Chaotic Good Abilities: Strength.................. 18/15 Dexterity................. 17 Constitution.............. 19 Intelligence.............. 6 Wisdom.................... 6 Charisma.................. 10 Class: Class..................... Fighter Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Bows...................... +++ Axes...................... ++

Name......................... Legina Firesword Gender....................... Female Race......................... Elf Alignment.................... Neutral Good Abilities: Strength.................. 18/36 Dexterity................. 19 Constitution.............. 17 Intelligence.............. 9 Wisdom.................... 5 Charisma.................. 10 Class: Class..................... Fighter Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Flails.................... ++ Large Swords.............. +++

Name......................... Glinnish Gomin Gender....................... Male Race......................... Gnome Alignment.................... Chaotic Good Abilities: Strength.................. 18/56 Dexterity................. 18 Constitution.............. 18 Intelligence.............. 7 Wisdom.................... 6 Charisma.................. 10 Class: Class..................... Fighter Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Axes...................... ++ Hammers................... +++

Name......................... Marian Leafth Gender....................... Female Race......................... Half-Elf Alignment.................... Neutral Good Abilities: Strength.................. 18/61 Dexterity................. 18 Constitution.............. 18 Intelligence.............. 6 Wisdom.................... 6 Charisma.................. 18 Class: Class..................... Fighter Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Maces..................... +++ Large Swords.............. ++

Name......................... Sami Slickfingers Gender....................... Male Race......................... Halfling Alignment.................... True Neutral Abilities: Strength.................. 17 Dexterity................. 19 Constitution.............. 18 Intelligence.............. 6 Wisdom.................... 5 Charisma.................. 10 Class: Class..................... Thief Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Bows...................... + Daggers................... + Small Swords.............. +

Name......................... Greta Healheart Gender....................... Female Race......................... Half-Elf Alignment.................... Lawful Good Abilities: Strength.................. 15 Dexterity................. 15 Constitution.............. 18 Intelligence.............. 6 Wisdom.................... 18 Charisma.................. 7 Class: Class..................... Cleric Level..................... 5 Weapon Proficiencies: Flails.................... + Maces..................... + Quarter Staves............ +

Sorry for the long post, but I don't know when to multiclass them and what classes etc. So some advice on this party would be great. Thanks.

[ 10-24-2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: G3MM4 ]

[galdur]

man, you don't like mages, or what? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[G3MM4]

Not in the current party. Maybe in future parties.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Aerich: Fighter/Druid - a multi-class (half-elf) to start off. NobleNick will disagree, but at your stage of expertise, the multiclass is easier. It's hard to roll a good Fighter/Druid for dualclassing, and you also have to know when to dualclass the character.

Aerich,

You hit the nail on the head: Mia Culpa... Am I really that predictable? I'll take it as a compliment!

G3MM4,

Aerich has some really good stuff in his last post. I enjoyed reading and learned a thing or two. The party he suggests will fare you well, I am sure.

My party suggestion for you is below. Again, this is for a party doing IWD and HoW and possibly TotLM. It differs a bit from the party I would take; mostly because I choose to DC at higher levels than most would, and I thought you would like a little more variety. The short story is that I don't like to MC Fighters, LOVE to DC Fighters, like physical parties, have found the Bard excellent for turbo charging physical parties, and have also found Cleric power to greatly ease the pain inflicted on the party in the expansions. Any one of the first 4 characters can tank; though I would typically rely on the Paladin and F[12]/C.

1.) Paladin (**LongSword, ** LongBow)
2.) DC Fighter[12]/good_Cleric (***** Mace, *** Sling)
3.) DC Fighter[10]/Druid (**** Scimitar, *** Sling)
4.) DC Fighter[9]/Illusionist (**** Axe, ***LongBow)
5.) MC Gnome Thief/neutral_Cleric (*Hammer, *Sling)
6.) Bard (*whatever, *whatever: Doesn't matter; she will not use weapons)

If you want more detailed rationale for my suggestions, as well as alternate party builds, see the threads, below. (There is lots of good discussion with Aerich in some of these threads.)

Thread that Calagari started: Skill gain.

Thread that Dancing Virginia started: My party -- FINALLY.

Thread that Aerich started A slightly intellectual exercise.

Thread that Gimli started: Party Help.

Thread that Feagil of the shadow started: a party combination.

You need to plan DC characters carefully (fun!) and roll them carefully (more fun!). For all except the F/D, the formula is STR=DEX=CON=18 for all DC Fighters; plus INT=18 for DC to Mage and WIS=18 for DC to Cleric. Roll totals in the low to mid 80s should do it. See threads above if you want more help on the topic.

Now, on to the DC Fighter/Druid. Aerich is right on: A good DC Fighter/Druid takes a little patience to roll. Take a look at the following thread (especially toward the end) to see if it is something you would like to undertake.

Thread that Noble Nick started: Druid Questions (Weapons and Spells).

If not, I would pick Single Class Druid. Or boot the Pally, turn the MC T/C into a DC F[9]/T (or F[7]/T if you can't stand the early game pain), and make two DC F/Cs --> F[9]/good_Cleric (****Hammer) and F[12]neutral_Cleric (*****Mace). The party would then look like this:

1.) Paladin (**LongSword, ** LongBow)
2.) DC Fighter[12]/neutral_Cleric (*****Mace, ***Sling)
3.) DC Fighter[9]/good_Cleric (****Hammer, ***Sling)
4.) DC Fighter[9]/Illusionist (****Axe, ***LongBow)
5.) DC Fighter[9]/Thief (****LongSword, ***LongBow)
6.) Bard (*whatever, *whatever: Doesn't matter; she will not use weapons

Notice that (except for the Pally): EVERY one of the front 5 are all at least 4 PP deep in a melee weapon? EVERY one of the front 5 is at the highest possible skill level with ranged weapon? That EVERY one of the front 5 has AT LEAST an extra ApR with ALL of their selected weapons? That EVERY one of the front 5 will have at least 126 HP at the DC? (This last includes the Pally, and assumes CON=18 for the Pally and all Fighters, and that you have selected max HP per level in the game options menu.) That EVERY one of the front 5 can tank (although I would let the Pally do it. Clerics can help)?

The Pally may look like the weak link, but he is not. His natural resistances and excellent armor (you give him the best!) Make him THE tank. All the monsters beat on HIM, while all the Fighters beat on THEM. In addition, the Pally eventually gets a weapon that puts him on an offensive par with the best Fighters. The Paladin will lead what is essentially an army of Fighters; that, Oh, by the way, can cast Mage, Cleric and some Druid-like spells until your eyes sag out of your head from watching them.

Although she will be the party Mage in the early game, the Bard's main purpose is to sing War Chant non-stop, so as to put armor plating on this killing machine, and heal them up for the next round. (This means EVERY party member is ALWAYS at 100% HP entering EVERY battle, and frees up the Clerics' many spell slots for buffing, curative and offensive spells, rather than straight healing. It also means your party never sleeps, except to regain spells or when fatigued.) The Bard's own AC is the chink in the party's very impressive armor; but if you give her Stone Skin, Blur (spell or item) and Mirror Image, she can, when needed, be tougher then your best tank.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Thanks to Aerich for showing me how to make proper links! Updated second party to remove F/D, as surrounding text said I would.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 10-28-2004, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]