Chemotropic Illusion

Originally posted by Yorick: There you have it. Schizophrenia and Chemotropic hallucinations for people aware of God in their life.

YOU ARE TROLLING!!!

that issue has already been dealt with.

BTW it was just an example, no insult intended, y’know?
You also say "for people aware of god in their life", you are trying to insinutate that I am insulting all people who belive in the christian relgion.
I reapeat, if you have a problem, TAKE IT TO E-MAIL or P.M.

Originally posted by Yorick: Here is a post detailing the misuse of Occam's Razor. In this instance the Christians insanity is an unproven assumption. Occam's razor is meaningless in that scenario. http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...;f=10;t=009199

TAKE IT TO E-MAIL OR P.M,

Please do not sully the forum with this disgraceful vendetta

[Yorick]

Neb, she's only wishing you the happiness she herself discovered. How is that such a bad thing? It's like a cool secret she discovered. Morally it would be evil for her not to hope everyone see's it, as it's free to any who want it.

That doesn't mean she disrespects you, but knows what it's like to not know God, and how her life improved once she did.
It's like recommending a diet or a doctor.

It doesn't mean you're overweight, or ill, but if you ARE, then she's giving a hint of where to get help.

[Neb]

Originally posted by Yorick: Neb, she's only wishing you the happiness she herself discovered. How is that such a bad thing? It's like a cool secret she discovered. Morally it would be evil for her not to hope everyone see's it, as it's free to any who want it. That doesn't mean she disrespects you, but knows what it's like to not know God, and how her life improved once she did. It's like recommending a diet or a doctor. It doesn't mean you're overweight, or ill, but if you ARE, then she's giving a hint of where to get help.

She should then wish me as happy a life as her, not happiness from the same things as her. The way that she said it was to me suggesting that my life WOULD be better with God and there was NO way that it could be better from anything else. Sorry, I just have an intense problem with people trying to "convert" others to their religion, sorry if I misunderstood what Cloudy was trying to say. But it's just something that gets on my nerves a lot when people try to "convert" others.

[Spelca]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Neb, she's only wishing you the happiness she herself discovered. How is that such a bad thing? It's like a cool secret she discovered. Morally it would be evil for her not to hope everyone see's it, as it's free to any who want it. That doesn't mean she disrespects you, but knows what it's like to not know God, and how her life improved once she did. It's like recommending a diet or a doctor. It doesn't mean you're overweight, or ill, but if you ARE, then she's giving a hint of where to get help.

She should then wish me as happy a life as her, not happiness from the same things as her. The way that she said it was to me suggesting that my life WOULD be better with God and there was NO way that it could be better from anything else. Sorry, I just have an intense problem with people trying to "convert" others to their religion, sorry if I misunderstood what Cloudy was trying to say. But it's just something that gets on my nerves a lot when people try to "convert" others.[/QUOTE]Yea, I agree with Neb. It goes on my nerves too. I know this sounds weird, and some probably won't even understand what I mean (while some will), but I get offended by it. I don't like it when people say they will pray I will find god some day. Whenever people say that I feel like they're trying to convince me and are pressuring me. It makes me feel the same way like you felt when they said you're suffering from 'chemotropic illusion'. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Yorick: Neb, she's only wishing you the happiness she herself discovered. How is that such a bad thing? It's like a cool secret she discovered. Morally it would be evil for her not to hope everyone see's it, as it's free to any who want it. That doesn't mean she disrespects you, but knows what it's like to not know God, and how her life improved once she did. It's like recommending a diet or a doctor. It doesn't mean you're overweight, or ill, but if you ARE, then she's giving a hint of where to get help.

I've been offered LSD and cocaine with exactly the same "I just want to share it, 'cuz I love it so much" line. The thought is nice, but it's not for me. For some folks, it works fine, for others it's a mind-numbing addiction that only looks good from the inside.
No offence to Amber in particular, I'm analogizing.

[Epona]

Mmmmmm, please don't take this the wrong way guys, I mean this in a friendly way [img]smile.gif[/img]
I find this whole thing very interesting.
I am an atheist. I have been for most of my life. Yorick knows that, yet we have never had an arguement about it that I recall, if we did, it certainly never turned out bitter like this. Sometimes I think people ask for the reactions they get [img]smile.gif[/img] All sides, whatever your beliefs, it is worth practising a little respect for others even if they do not agree with you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: *I* never said that you were mentally ill, the great Troll Master tried to insinuate that I did, It's a pity you swallowed his propaganda, But well... never mind.

Really? (i did say suggested btw)

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: But of course our own personal experience counts for little, since it is more likely according to Occam’s razor that rather than for example receiving a vision from god, you are in fact under a chemotropic illusion, and that it is not independently verifiable and provable and therefore unscientific.

And sorry I did not imply common belief = truth, rather that the implication is that not all who believe in God are suffering chemotropic illusions.

As I said, I can accept that people arrive at beliefs other than my own by way of rational, logical and intelligent means. Why do you have such a hard time accepting that anyone with a differing opinion to you may also be rational, logical and intelligent?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Neb, she's only wishing you the happiness she herself discovered. How is that such a bad thing? It's like a cool secret she discovered. Morally it would be evil for her not to hope everyone see's it, as it's free to any who want it. That doesn't mean she disrespects you, but knows what it's like to not know God, and how her life improved once she did. It's like recommending a diet or a doctor. It doesn't mean you're overweight, or ill, but if you ARE, then she's giving a hint of where to get help.

I've been offered LSD and cocaine with exactly the same "I just want to share it, 'cuz I love it so much" line. The thought is nice, but it's not for me. For some folks, it works fine, for others it's a mind-numbing addiction that only looks good from the inside.
No offence to Amber in particular, I'm analogizing.[/QUOTE]I'm defending her motivation Absynthe, not whether the said faith is perfect for everyone.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Leonis quote: Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: But of course our own personal experience counts for little, since it is more likely according to Occam’s razor that rather than for example receiving a vision from god, you are in fact under a chemotropic illusion, and that it is not independently verifiable and provable and therefore unscientific.

And sorry I did not imply common belief = truth, rather that the implication is that not all who believe in God are suffering chemotropic illusions.

As I said, I can accept that people arrive at beliefs other than my own by way of rational, logical and intelligent means. Why do you have such a hard time accepting that anyone with a differing opinion to you may also be rational, logical and intelligent?[/QUOTE]Leonis,

Do you know what I think? I think that Occam's razor actually supports the existence of God.

The principal follows that whichever scenario has the least unproven assumptions is correct. (The simpler the better)

Say there is a room of 10,000 people, who all 'feel Gods presence'.

The scenario of God existing is one unproven assumption.
To suggest all 10,000 are experiencing mass delusion relys on 10,000 unproven assumptions does it not? We are talking about indviduals. One must individually assume each person is seperately having a chemotropic hallucination.

That's 10,000 unproven assumptions verses one - That God was in the room.

Go Occam!

Try it for evolution theory verses creation theory.

For Creation theory, there is one 'unproven ussumption'.

The existence of a creator. The rest we already see. Species contained development, erosion, tectonic plate shifting etc.

For evolution we have mutations (1), the universe being old enough to support the accepted evolutionary path (2), life spontaneously forming in a warm pond (3) the accepted evolutionary path - as opposed to rejected hypotheticals, that is monkeys went to the water, instead of the land as previously believed (4) - all of which are unproven assumptions.

So evolution theory has four unproven assumptions, while creationism has one.

I believe Occam's razor would actually support creationism, as the theory with the least number of unproven assumptions is preferred.

Am I out of my tree Leonis?

Cheers

Yorick

[ 06-19-2002, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]