What to do about Sadam Hussain? - Page 3

Ronn_Bman · 03-07-2002, 06:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

Well, as far as I know that is partially correct. The *US* in spectors were not allowed in certain areas as they were caught spying in other areas. [/i]

Barry, I know the US can do bad things, but do you really believe Saddam's claim of spying by the inspectors? What would they be trying to spy on other than his weapons ability? That claim holds about as much water as as trespassing charge against the UN for it's involvement. How many months was he given to evacuate Kuwait before the bombing started?

Keep in mind, this is the same guy who initially claimed the invasion of Kuwait was to prevent a Kuwaiti invasion of Iraq, which was before he deciding he was doing it because Kuwait was stealing his oil, which was before he claimed Kuwait was actually a historical part of Iraq and he was performing a "re-unification".

Honestly Barry, the inspectors job was to spy on his weapons making ability. Only I wouldn't call it spying, since he agreed to it in order to stop the war.

Ronn_Bman · 03-07-2002, 06:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:

Basically all I know MagiK is that every UN weapon inspector I have seen giving an interview and every report I have seen (usually summarised via a newspaper as I don't have the kind of time or technical knowledge to decipher the real thing) seems to indicate that he has no power to threaten us whatsoever. He has no weapons and no way of using them if he did. We are flogging a dead horse with this one./i]

The reports I've seen indicate his conventional military is no longer an immedidate threat to others. They place his conventional military at less than a third of his pre-Kuwait excursion, but conventional weapons aren't the problem. He never allowed the UN inspectors to clairify he didn't have any weapons of mass destruction or the ability to create them (beyond what was initially found).

Ronn_Bman · 03-07-2002, 06:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by fable:
He's there, he's potentially dangerous, he's clever, and Dubyah sees him as a great war card to play before the November elections in the US. What should be done by the rest of the world to Hussain, if anything?

I don't think it's the "war card". Saddam's fate has been discussed and threats have been made against him for the last decade. Nothing new here, with the exception that something may actually happen.

I think the the world(US included) should do what it said it would do at the end of the Gulf War. Ensure that Iraq is not a threat on any level. If Iraq has not been forced into submission by loosely enforced sanctions, then the sanctions should be tightened and everyone should participate. Just because it's been nearly a decade since the end of the Gulf War, doesn't mean Iraq shouldn't be forced to submit. Many think, well since it's been so long let's just let them off the hook. I think that's as wrong as ending the war against Iraq early for political reasons.

SSJ4Sephiroth · 03-07-2002, 07:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Im a bit curious...how can inspectors who have the right to go anywhere they see fit because they won the war be guilty of spying?? Iraq lost any rights it had to privacy when they illegally invaded kuwait.

Actually, he illegally invaded Kuwait on US funds. We were sending funds to support him 'til he decided to invade Kuwait, which would drive up the price of oil, so we moved in. It's all money; and seeing as how our bombings keep the Iraquis out of the world scene, I don't think they'll be stopped. As long as Iraq stays with a shattered infrastructure, more money goes to the US for our goods and services.

The bombings should be let up and Iraq should be able to have some democracy without US serving as Big Brother. Like Barry said, they're no threat. They couldn't fire those weapons even if they had them, and they don't.

Ronn_Bman · 03-07-2002, 07:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth:

Actually, he illegally invaded Kuwait on US funds. We were sending funds to support him 'til he decided to invade Kuwait, which would drive up the price of oil, so we moved in. It's all money; and seeing as how our bombings keep the Iraquis out of the world scene, I don't think they'll be stopped. As long as Iraq stays with a shattered infrastructure, more money goes to the US for our goods and services.

The bombings should be let up and Iraq should be able to have some democracy without US serving as Big Brother. Like Barry said, they're no threat. They couldn't fire those weapons even if they had them, and they don't.

No one denies the US supported Iraq against Iran. When he turned against Kuwait we didn't stand beside him.

What things was your country buying from Iraq then that they now buy from the US? Oil? I doubt it.

Iraq isn't being constantly bombed and when bombing does take place it isn't just the US. Britain is still involved as well. The bombings in Iraq are against illegal anti-aircraft weapons sites, etc. Sites which have been deemed illegal under previous UN resolutions.

The US doesn't want to run Iraq. By all means, let them have a democratically elected government under the UN. The US has been the major UN player in Afghanistan, but we didn't setup the provisional government there. We support it, but they are under UN protection.

BTW, Barry didn't say they didn't have weapons of mass destruction, he said he hadn't seen anything to convince him, but you, nor I, nor Barry is really in a position to know.

nick1979 · 03-08-2002, 12:22 AM

Here’s the plan lets just sit back and see if he kills a couple of a thousand people. No. If we have learned anything from September 11 let it be that we cannot sit idly by and watch innocent people die. The guy is a wack job and needs to be taken out. How many more people have to die before everyone gets behinds this effort. It’s time to take out the trash! If you don’t want to be considered a threat show every one that your not. Sadam has not done this and probably will not. Playing wait and see does not work anymore. The world has to act!

AzureWolf · 03-08-2002, 02:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

If Iraq has not been forced into submission by loosely enforced sanctions, then the sanctions should be tightened and everyone should participate.

Please tell me you are kidding about tightened sanctions

norompanlasolas · 03-08-2002, 05:16 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

You might be surprised at just how many things DIDN't happen during the 80's due to our intel agencies. [img]smile.gif[/img]

yes, during the 70s and 80s a lot of people werent mass murdered in nicaragua, argentina, chile and other center and south american countries thanks to the benevolent american intel agency and the school of the americas, a place were most wannabes dictators went to learn and train in the fine art of genocide of their own people.

Donut · 03-08-2002, 06:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nick1979:
The world has to act!

From what I've been reading the US will have to act unilaterally on this one.

Jorath Calar · 03-08-2002, 07:05 AM

http://www.joecartoon.com/cartoons/osamabox.html

Here is a pretty good idea (at the end) it's pretty gruesome so you younger folks probably shouldn't see it... but you will anyway so...
[img]smile.gif[/img]

03-07-2002, 06:35 PM	#21
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: *Well, as far as I know that is partially correct. The US* in spectors were not allowed in certain areas as they were caught spying in other areas. [/i] Barry, I know the US can do bad things, but do you really believe Saddam's claim of spying by the inspectors? What would they be trying to spy on other than his weapons ability? That claim holds about as much water as as trespassing charge against the UN for it's involvement. How many months was he given to evacuate Kuwait before the bombing started? Keep in mind, this is the same guy who initially claimed the invasion of Kuwait was to prevent a Kuwaiti invasion of Iraq, which was before he deciding he was doing it because Kuwait was stealing his oil, which was before he claimed Kuwait was actually a historical part of Iraq and he was performing a "re-unification". Honestly Barry, the inspectors job was** to spy on his weapons making ability. Only I wouldn't call it spying, since he agreed to it in order to stop the war. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-07-2002, 06:44 PM	#22
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: Basically all I know MagiK is that every UN weapon inspector I have seen giving an interview and every report I have seen (usually summarised via a newspaper as I don't have the kind of time or technical knowledge to decipher the real thing) seems to indicate that he has no power to threaten us whatsoever. He has no weapons and no way of using them if he did. We are flogging a dead horse with this one./i] The reports I've seen indicate his conventional military is no longer an immedidate threat to others. They place his conventional military at less than a third of his pre-Kuwait excursion, but conventional weapons aren't the problem. He never allowed the UN inspectors to clairify he didn't have any weapons of mass destruction or the ability to create them (beyond what was initially found). __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-07-2002, 06:55 PM	#23
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by fable: He's there, he's potentially dangerous, he's clever, and Dubyah sees him as a great war card to play before the November elections in the US. What should be done by the rest of the world to Hussain, if anything? I don't think it's the "war card". Saddam's fate has been discussed and threats have been made against him for the last decade. Nothing new here, with the exception that something may actually happen. I think the the world(US included) should do what it said it would do at the end of the Gulf War. Ensure that Iraq is not a threat on any level. If Iraq has not been forced into submission by loosely enforced sanctions, then the sanctions should be tightened and everyone should participate. Just because it's been nearly a decade since the end of the Gulf War, doesn't mean Iraq shouldn't be forced to submit. Many think, well since it's been so long let's just let them off the hook. I think that's as wrong as ending the war against Iraq early for political reasons. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-07-2002, 07:13 PM	#24
SSJ4Sephiroth Beholder Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: The Outside Looking In Age: 37 Posts: 4,361	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Im a bit curious...how can inspectors who have the right to go anywhere they see fit because they won the war be guilty of spying?? Iraq lost any rights it had to privacy when they illegally invaded kuwait. Actually, he illegally invaded Kuwait on US funds. We were sending funds to support him 'til he decided to invade Kuwait, which would drive up the price of oil, so we moved in. It's all money; and seeing as how our bombings keep the Iraquis out of the world scene, I don't think they'll be stopped. As long as Iraq stays with a shattered infrastructure, more money goes to the US for our goods and services. The bombings should be let up and Iraq should be able to have some democracy without US serving as Big Brother. Like Barry said, they're no threat. They couldn't fire those weapons even if they had them, and they don't.

03-07-2002, 07:25 PM	#25
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth: Actually, he illegally invaded Kuwait on US funds. We were sending funds to support him 'til he decided to invade Kuwait, which would drive up the price of oil, so we moved in. It's all money; and seeing as how our bombings keep the Iraquis out of the world scene, I don't think they'll be stopped. As long as Iraq stays with a shattered infrastructure, more money goes to the US for our goods and services. The bombings should be let up and Iraq should be able to have some democracy without US serving as Big Brother. Like Barry said, they're no threat. They couldn't fire those weapons even if they had them, and they don't. No one denies the US supported Iraq against Iran. When he turned against Kuwait we didn't stand beside him. What things was your country buying from Iraq then that they now buy from the US? Oil? I doubt it. Iraq isn't being constantly bombed and when bombing does take place it isn't just the US. Britain is still involved as well. The bombings in Iraq are against illegal anti-aircraft weapons sites, etc. Sites which have been deemed illegal under previous UN resolutions. The US doesn't want to run Iraq. By all means, let them have a democratically elected government under the UN. The US has been the major UN player in Afghanistan, but we didn't setup the provisional government there. We support it, but they are under UN protection. BTW, Barry didn't say they didn't have weapons of mass destruction, he said he hadn't seen anything to convince him, but you, nor I, nor Barry is really in a position to know. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-08-2002, 12:22 AM	#26
nick1979 Zhentarim Guard Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Murfreesboro, TN, USA Age: 45 Posts: 333	Here’s the plan lets just sit back and see if he kills a couple of a thousand people. No. If we have learned anything from September 11 let it be that we cannot sit idly by and watch innocent people die. The guy is a wack job and needs to be taken out. How many more people have to die before everyone gets behinds this effort. It’s time to take out the trash! If you don’t want to be considered a threat show every one that your not. Sadam has not done this and probably will not. Playing wait and see does not work anymore. The world has to act! __________________

03-08-2002, 02:24 AM	#27
AzureWolf 20th Level Warrior Join Date: May 3, 2001 Location: . Age: 40 Posts: 2,762	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: If Iraq has not been forced into submission by loosely enforced sanctions, then the sanctions should be tightened and everyone should participate. Please tell me you are kidding about tightened sanctions

03-08-2002, 05:16 AM	#28
norompanlasolas Avatar Join Date: November 13, 2001 Location: madrid, spain... made in argentina Age: 47 Posts: 569	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: You might be surprised at just how many things DIDN't happen during the 80's due to our intel agencies. [img]smile.gif[/img] yes, during the 70s and 80s a lot of people werent mass murdered in nicaragua, argentina, chile and other center and south american countries thanks to the benevolent american intel agency and the school of the americas, a place were most wannabes dictators went to learn and train in the fine art of genocide of their own people. __________________ no

03-08-2002, 06:19 AM	#29
Donut Jack Burton Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Airstrip One Age: 40 Posts: 5,571	quote: Originally posted by nick1979: The world has to act! From what I've been reading the US will have to act unilaterally on this one. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wheatsheaf.freeserve.co.uk/roastspurs.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> <br />Proud member of the Axis of Upheaval<br />Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas<br />Josiah Bartlet - the best President the US never had.<br />The 1st D in the D & D Show

03-08-2002, 07:05 AM	#30
Jorath Calar Harper Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: Iceland Posts: 4,706	http://www.joecartoon.com/cartoons/osamabox.html Here is a pretty good idea (at the end) it's pretty gruesome so you younger folks probably shouldn't see it... but you will anyway so... [img]smile.gif[/img]

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