06-18-2003, 07:08 PM | #21 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
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MagiK, the problem is we do not KNOW the veracity of your statement that these people are intimately connected to terror. We do not know that they are intimately connected to anything, as we do not know their names, what they are linked to, or what they have done. They can't prove they're not intimately connected because they have no lawyer and no charges to dispute.
Sorry, but I don't trust the administration's word THAT much. "Yeah, trust us, but we can't tell you why." They were so trustworthy with the WoMD determination. Aren't we all lucky they substituted their knowledge in place of the UN's and its 160 or so countries and saved us from all those horrible weapons. It is the crack in the egg. It is the beginning of the long road to tyranny. It is a baby step now, but the path is clear. Besides, under the often lauded FIRST AMENDMENT's freedom of association, (touted by Rhenquist and other constitutional scholars as one of the primary defining American-specific freedoms setting us apart - and central in the Boy Scouts case) you cannot be prosecuted for being a friend of a terrorist. Or knowing them. Or even belonging to Al Queda. Like the KKK, you have a right to associate with like-minded individuals and be as stupid as you like -- so long as you commit no crimes. And, that is as it should be. Limiting association is tantamount to legislating thought and belief. But then non-citizens don't enjoy the protection of the First Amendment now, do they? (Of course, that judge-made law in and of itself derrogates from the plain language of the First Amendment which does not mention rights of citizens but rather says "Congress shall make no law....") [ 06-18-2003, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ] |
06-18-2003, 07:38 PM | #22 |
Lord Ao
Join Date: June 24, 2002
Location: Nevernever Land
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Well, Timber, being that it is the US Constitution, that kinda implies US Citizens - no one else.
This is a very dangerous trend, though. The gov is trying to find numerous loop holes to abuse people. They aren't US citizens, so they don't enjoy the protection of the Constitution. OK - I can buy that. But they are also trying to claim that they don't enjoy POW status either because they were "unlawful combatants". Now there is some fine work of legal dancing. I can understand that these people were taken from a combat zone, and their value as intelligence sources is extremely valuable, but not playing by rules that we helped create just sends the image that we are an 800 lb gorilla that does what it wants and doesn't care what anyone else thinks. That maybe true, but it's not political to actually act that way. Since they were taken, presumably, on the battlefield, one of two things should have happened. Treated them as soldiers and This legal acrobatic act that the gov is taking is a very BadThingTM. First the treatment of the detainees at GTMO, then the Patriot Act (which openly flouts every word in the Bill of Rights). Next we have Ceassar having Congress declare him President for Life. Never happen you say? Hmmmm ..... ignoring the numerous Third World examples, I seem to reacall another very succuessfull Democratically Republican Empire doing just so about 2000 years ago .....
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06-19-2003, 07:10 AM | #23 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: March 1, 2001
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I may be wrong Night Stalker but I think the article refers to another group of illegally held people rather than those who are at Camp X-ray.
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06-19-2003, 08:10 AM | #24 | |
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06-19-2003, 08:12 AM | #25 | |
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06-19-2003, 08:26 AM | #26 |
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Couple of points.
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06-19-2003, 10:51 AM | #27 |
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06-19-2003, 11:01 AM | #28 | |
Jack Burton
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Quote:
These are not the camp X-ray detainees. The are the 750 or so that were detained mostly in and around New York, mostly of middle eastern descent and mainly muslims. It's unknown how many of them are US citizens. Will you deny them their rights under the constitution?
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06-19-2003, 11:54 AM | #29 | |
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Hello! is anyone in there? My post did not reference the people in NY. Did you not see the "camp X-ray" in bright blue letters? As for the people in NY you are refering to, I don't have any information on them, I haven't even read any stories on them so I have no opinion on that matter.....yet. |
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06-19-2003, 12:03 PM | #30 |
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Did a google search for New York Detainees and didn't find even one reference...some one have a link to stories about 700 New York citizens being detained? |
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