Believe in Life after Death? - Page 12

Yorick · 05-20-2001, 11:50 AM

Mind you this old Irish guy here asked me (as he was showing me the way to a local pub) whether I had Irish connections. When I answered yes he said "So you're one of us!" Which made me feel very welcomed.

There Irish diaspora is supposed to be 60 million! Far more than the 5 million in the Republic of Ireland.

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Melusine · 05-20-2001, 12:23 PM

I have refrained from posting in this thread for a long time, probably because I have no idea what I must think of it. I feel such...what? envy? admiration? for people who do know the answer to this question, and who feel secure that their belief is the right one. I think Yorick's belief is pretty admirable(if I'm not misrepresenting or misunderstanding your statements), he has a belief and still accpets that there might be an absolute truth which we humans cannot grasp, therefore his belief might be not in accordance with that absolute truth. You then continue saying that's why you call it "faith". Sound reasoning and it sounds attractive.
I am not religious, simply because I cannot allow myself -for whatever reason- to have such an absolute faith when I have no absolute truth. I always tried to keep all my options open, for one thing I did believe is that there had to be SOMETHING after death. I figure that there must be something that animates this matter we call our bodies. I really do believe that we have both a body and a soul. Else, what would distinguish us from lifeless things? Continuing that reasoning, it seems logical to me that when the tangible part of us, the flesh and bones, our body, dies, why should the soul or intangible part die with it?
Still, I never dared believing anything further than that, simply because I think there are so many plausible possibilities. There have happened some things last year which did alter my opinion on this, which I will write about for the first time. The people who have visited this board for some time have gone through quite a few hard times together and it always seemed to me that the Forum was a valuable help to various members who went to grief or other difficult things. However, I never mentioned any of this before, perhaps because it is too painful. Last year, I lost my grandmother, a very vital and lively woman, wholly unexpectedly as she died in her sleep. The way everything went was very traumatic, and still causes a lot of pain, one year after dato. My uncle, who is one of the most cheerful and life-loving and -enjoying people I have ever known, lost not only his mother-in-law (my grandmother) but also his own mother, who had died only a few weeks earlier. After half a year of struggle (a struggle of which we, his close family, had almost no knowing) he decided to end his life by drowning himself. These two deaths have affected me and my family so deeply that I had no idea it would have been possible. And they also made me think even more about issues like the one Lady Avalon brought up in this thread. I simply started feeling that my grandmother *was* still there, in whatever form. Personally, I like to think of her as simply being there in the nature (she loved flowers and always had the most beautiful garden in the entire neighbourhood), but even though I have no clear concept of her "Life after Death", I know that it exists. I can really relate to your feelings, Cyberpixie, and I wish you all the best from the deepest of my heart. I pray (which is a loaded, ambiguous word in this context, but which I mean in a general way) that you will find strength and consolation in anything.
I believe this is the longest post I've ever written, and I'm still not sure whether I should post this, but I tried ignoring Lady Avalon's very interesting topic for a long time, and still felt compelled in the end to answer it.

------------------
Melusine, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, &
Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar

Your voice is ambrosia

Fljotsdale · 05-20-2001, 02:39 PM

Glad to have you in this thread, Melusine

, even though your reason is tragic. Having lost 3 family members myself in a short time I can relate to how you feel - though I have never had anyone close to me suicide. That must make you feel truly dreadful. You have my warmest sympathy. Hugs, Melusine.

Fljotsdale

Melusine · 05-20-2001, 02:45 PM

Thanks so much, Fljotsdale!
Glad you joined this Forum, you've become an indispensable part of it if I may say so

------------------
Melusine, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, &
Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar

Your voice is ambrosia

Fljotsdale · 05-20-2001, 03:28 PM

Thanks Melusine!

This is the best forum I have ever been on

Nicest people EVER!

------------------

[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 05-20-2001).]

05-21-2001, 01:33 AM

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I am still having a hard time dealing with the reality of the situation, and I am at a point where there are very few tears left....only aching sadness. I feel as if my heart is breaking, but it is the love and care of my friends that help me keep going.

For those of you who have also shared your stories of loss, I send my thoughts and prayers out to you.

[This message has been edited by CyberPixie (edited 05-21-2001).]

WOLFGIR · 05-21-2001, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CyberPixie:
Thank you everyone for your kind words. I am still having a hard time dealing with the reality of the situation, and I am at a point where there are very few tears left....only aching sadness. I feel as if my heart is breaking, but it is the love and care of my friends that help me keep going.

For those of you who have also shared your stories of loss, I send my thoughts and prayers out to you.

[This message has been edited by CyberPixie (edited 05-21-2001).]

Cyberpixie!

I grieve with you and my thoughts are with you, in fact there is little this cybersupport can do, but well, thats about what one can do ove this distance

I wish you strength and peace of mind..

Take care.

------------------

Yawning lazywolf..

Yorick · 05-23-2001, 04:43 PM

Melusine, thanks for posting so openly. I respect you too you know

.
I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Western civilisation is quite backward in terms of dealing with death. We are taught how to drive, how to read and how to teach ourselves, but we are not given a course in grief preparation or death coping, and only receive counselling after an event if at all. I've lost family: an uncle and grandfather; as well as friends to the abrupt cessation of life. All of us do at some point. It is something we all go through and should reach out to each other for support and to support. My cowriter lost her mother, and because she appeared fine, everyone assumed she was, despite the opposite being the case.

I'm glad Cyberpixie you have posted. This forum can be quite therapudic in some ways as we can express and recieve support from our bretheren the world over. You are not alone, the grief will fade with time - and though the hole where your friends were can never be filled, it does get better Cyberpixie. Have faith and take heart.

I also looked death in the face when I lost half my blood supply a couple of years ago. The stress it placed on my wife who had lost close family and friends sent her into long term illness and placed enourmous stress on an already partially disfunctional relationship.

That's life I'm afraid. You cope or you die. You must keep placing one foot in front of the other no matter what, and allow time to work it's strengthening course - to honour the person you will be as a result of tragedy: Stronger, deeper, of more insight, at once both more sensitive and enduring.

The depths are part of the ride, part of the deal. It's a great ride though

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Lady Avalon · 05-23-2001, 06:20 PM

Yorick, very well said. I just want everyone to know how much I appreciate all your views on this topic. I have so much enjoyed reading all these posts. Just when I think this is going to fade away to the second page, I check in here and wo and behold, there it is at the top again and I find myself anxiously reading the next post.

------------------

Seeker of Truth

caleb · 05-23-2001, 10:51 PM

You must look death in the eyes and say. You may take our lives but you will never take our freedom!

------------------

BOW TO THE BISCUIT KING AND HIS THRONE OF SCONE!!!

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05-20-2001, 11:50 AM	#111
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	Mind you this old Irish guy here asked me (as he was showing me the way to a local pub) whether I had Irish connections. When I answered yes he said "So you're one of us!" Which made me feel very welcomed. There Irish diaspora is supposed to be 60 million! Far more than the 5 million in the Republic of Ireland. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

05-20-2001, 12:23 PM	#112
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 44 Posts: 6,541	I have refrained from posting in this thread for a long time, probably because I have no idea what I must think of it. I feel such...what? envy? admiration? for people who do know the answer to this question, and who feel secure that their belief is the right one. I think Yorick's belief is pretty admirable(if I'm not misrepresenting or misunderstanding your statements), he has a belief and still accpets that there might be an absolute truth which we humans cannot grasp, therefore his belief might be not in accordance with that absolute truth. You then continue saying that's why you call it "faith". Sound reasoning and it sounds attractive. I am not religious, simply because I cannot allow myself -for whatever reason- to have such an absolute faith when I have no absolute truth. I always tried to keep all my options open, for one thing I did believe is that there had to be SOMETHING after death. I figure that there must be something that animates this matter we call our bodies. I really do believe that we have both a body and a soul. Else, what would distinguish us from lifeless things? Continuing that reasoning, it seems logical to me that when the tangible part of us, the flesh and bones, our body, dies, why should the soul or intangible part die with it? Still, I never dared believing anything further than that, simply because I think there are so many plausible possibilities. There have happened some things last year which did alter my opinion on this, which I will write about for the first time. The people who have visited this board for some time have gone through quite a few hard times together and it always seemed to me that the Forum was a valuable help to various members who went to grief or other difficult things. However, I never mentioned any of this before, perhaps because it is too painful. Last year, I lost my grandmother, a very vital and lively woman, wholly unexpectedly as she died in her sleep. The way everything went was very traumatic, and still causes a lot of pain, one year after dato. My uncle, who is one of the most cheerful and life-loving and -enjoying people I have ever known, lost not only his mother-in-law (my grandmother) but also his own mother, who had died only a few weeks earlier. After half a year of struggle (a struggle of which we, his close family, had almost no knowing) he decided to end his life by drowning himself. These two deaths have affected me and my family so deeply that I had no idea it would have been possible. And they also made me think even more about issues like the one Lady Avalon brought up in this thread. I simply started feeling that my grandmother was still there, in whatever form. Personally, I like to think of her as simply being there in the nature (she loved flowers and always had the most beautiful garden in the entire neighbourhood), but even though I have no clear concept of her "Life after Death", I know that it exists. I can really relate to your feelings, Cyberpixie, and I wish you all the best from the deepest of my heart. I pray (which is a loaded, ambiguous word in this context, but which I mean in a general way) that you will find strength and consolation in anything. I believe this is the longest post I've ever written, and I'm still not sure whether I should post this, but I tried ignoring Lady Avalon's very interesting topic for a long time, and still felt compelled in the end to answer it. ------------------ Melusine, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, & Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar Your voice is ambrosia

05-20-2001, 02:39 PM	#113
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 87 Posts: 2,859	Glad to have you in this thread, Melusine , even though your reason is tragic. Having lost 3 family members myself in a short time I can relate to how you feel - though I have never had anyone close to me suicide. That must make you feel truly dreadful. You have my warmest sympathy. Hugs, Melusine. Fljotsdale

05-20-2001, 02:45 PM	#114
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 44 Posts: 6,541	Thanks so much, Fljotsdale! Glad you joined this Forum, you've become an indispensable part of it if I may say so ------------------ Melusine, Archbabe of the Order of the Holy Flame and the Laughing Hyenas, & Official Entertainer Elf of the BG2 Bar Your voice is ambrosia

05-20-2001, 03:28 PM	#115
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 87 Posts: 2,859	Thanks Melusine! This is the best forum I have ever been on Nicest people EVER! ------------------ [This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 05-20-2001).]

05-21-2001, 01:33 AM	#116
CyberPixie Guest Posts: n/a	Thank you everyone for your kind words. I am still having a hard time dealing with the reality of the situation, and I am at a point where there are very few tears left....only aching sadness. I feel as if my heart is breaking, but it is the love and care of my friends that help me keep going. For those of you who have also shared your stories of loss, I send my thoughts and prayers out to you. [This message has been edited by CyberPixie (edited 05-21-2001).]

05-23-2001, 04:43 PM	#118
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	Melusine, thanks for posting so openly. I respect you too you know . I'm sorry to hear of your loss. Western civilisation is quite backward in terms of dealing with death. We are taught how to drive, how to read and how to teach ourselves, but we are not given a course in grief preparation or death coping, and only receive counselling after an event if at all. I've lost family: an uncle and grandfather; as well as friends to the abrupt cessation of life. All of us do at some point. It is something we all go through and should reach out to each other for support and to support. My cowriter lost her mother, and because she appeared fine, everyone assumed she was, despite the opposite being the case. I'm glad Cyberpixie you have posted. This forum can be quite therapudic in some ways as we can express and recieve support from our bretheren the world over. You are not alone, the grief will fade with time - and though the hole where your friends were can never be filled, it does get better Cyberpixie. Have faith and take heart. I also looked death in the face when I lost half my blood supply a couple of years ago. The stress it placed on my wife who had lost close family and friends sent her into long term illness and placed enourmous stress on an already partially disfunctional relationship. That's life I'm afraid. You cope or you die. You must keep placing one foot in front of the other no matter what, and allow time to work it's strengthening course - to honour the person you will be as a result of tragedy: Stronger, deeper, of more insight, at once both more sensitive and enduring. The depths are part of the ride, part of the deal. It's a great ride though ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

05-23-2001, 06:20 PM	#119
Lady Avalon Emerald Dragon Join Date: March 2, 2001 Location: Tennessee, U.S.A. Age: 74 Posts: 996	Yorick, very well said. I just want everyone to know how much I appreciate all your views on this topic. I have so much enjoyed reading all these posts. Just when I think this is going to fade away to the second page, I check in here and wo and behold, there it is at the top again and I find myself anxiously reading the next post. ------------------ Seeker of Truth

05-23-2001, 10:51 PM	#120
caleb Horus - Egyptian Sky God Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA, U.S.A. Age: 40 Posts: 2,615	You must look death in the eyes and say. You may take our lives but you will never take our freedom! ------------------ BOW TO THE BISCUIT KING AND HIS THRONE OF SCONE!!!

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