Europe & America: A comparison of social systems

[shamrock_uk]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17726

This is a very interesting article which attempts to present a robust defence of the European 'way of doing things' when compared to commonly-held views and accusations about its failings that are often made in America.

It covers everything from the welfare state to any future role within the world and is well worth a read - don't let the length put you off.

Towards the end there are references to books he is reviewing, but his argument is perfectly understandable without any knowledge of them.

The three things I found most interesting were how poorly America perfoms in many measures of standard of living, and (whilst I knew about the poor value of American healthcare from economics) the bad health indicators themselves were quite surprising. Also, the notion that Europe may be heading down a different road, rather than simply lagging behind America has some interesting implications for the future. The biggest omission is his brushing off of the pensions crisis as not being relevent to the issues he is addressing - that may be so, but it's still going to throw up large problems for Europe in the future and deserved a better treatment.

Enjoy [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-27-2005, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Stratos]

Well, the article is quite pro-Europe, but an interresting read nonetheless.

A mistake that it seems that many American critics to Europe's welfare system are making is that they focus too much on how the system is currently working, and not much about how it can improve. I think the future welfare system in Europe will be smaller, more picky about who it gives aid to and will employ more personnel to track down any cheaters. It's already happening in the "Welfare State No. 1"; Sweden.

The very idea that a welfare state is doomed to fail by nature appears to be a more common idea in the US than in Europe. Thus the US isn't spending enough time and effort to fix the system, and are instead complaining that it doesn't work, while the Europeans regard it as a holy cow and is constantly finetuning it.

[Sythe]

*draws a sign, faces east toward Europe and raises sign*

HELP ME HELP ME! I cannot take more of the US with its arrogance and ignorance! And the idiotic and corrupt president!

[Sir Degrader]

If you don't like it, then leave. No one is forcing you to stay here, and I have little doubt that with an attitude like that most people would prefer if you left.

[ 01-25-2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Sir Degrader ]

[Sythe]

Hahaha how many times have that been uttered before? At one time I wanted to get the hell out of here but I think I will stay and use the first amendment maybe just in spite of everyone.

[Davros]

I was patient and got throught it. Despite a propensity for the author to go to lengths to display his vocabulary (definitely a trend to use the more obscure word when the alternative presented), he presents a lot of data in a reasonably fair manner. It is overly balanced on the pro-Europe side, but that doesn't invalidate any of the points it made. It just means I would have liked to see a few more points in balance for the other side.

I am not sure that he makes all that convincing a case of the whys that underly the neo-con paranoia about the EU and the UN, but it makes for a readable base case Methinks that something as complex as that paranoia cannot be easily explained away with a few lines of prose.

[Stratos]

The author doesn't say much about taxes, an important aspect when discussing welfare systems.

[ 01-25-2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Stratos ]

[John D Harris]

An interesting read, I'll leave it for history to make the final judgement on which system worked better.

[Azred]

It's a shame you feel that way, Sythe. We are the best and we know it. That isn't arrogance...it is simply the truth.

Note that I didn't say "perfect", only "best". I know that an unpleasant reality is difficult with which to live, but facing reality is always a good idea.

I made it through most of the article. What can I say? These authors are in love with Europe and don't consider anything else to be viable. That is fine with me, because variety is the spice of life. However, I think they are mistaken because eventually the economic drain of higher taxes that support a more socialist state will offset the benefits from things such as national health care and various governmental support programs. I thought Europe abandoned heavy-handed governments a long time ago...I can only conclude that many would rather have government do things for them than do things for themselves.

[Jerr Conner]

I don't know, most of the time whenever I hear people saying we're the best country ever, there's nothing but arrogance in their voices.