Female Suicide Bombers

[Neb]

The difference between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorist" is in my opinion that freedom fighters don't attack civilians on purpose.

[Smeagol II]

Neb if a freedom fighter thinks that his his aims will justify attacking civilians then he will do so. And great post Yorick.

[ 04-04-2002, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Smeagol II ]

[Evil Al]

Originally posted by Neb: The difference between a "freedom fighter" and a "terrorist" is in my opinion that freedom fighters don't attack civilians on purpose.

Well would that make the American's terrorists or the British? We invented ethnic cleansing for God's sake.
I saw on the news that n resent conflicts 300 Israelis have died and over 3000 Arabs have died. Suicide bombings is the only way that the Arabs can fight back against American made weapons.

[*\Conan/*]

When I was in the Engineers many years ago I worked with many different explosives. Everything from crator charges to bangor tubes. From what it looks like the damage caused by many of these particular ones are from c-4. It blasts more in a flamming radius then upwards like dynamite. Both of these materials are closely tracked and leave trace amounts of evidence behind. Each having a unique type of trace element that can be verified ,with investigation, where it was made, who purchased it, and for what purpose it was sold for.
I can only come to the conclusion that these blasts are sponsored by high ranking individuals somewhere. Young adults just don't find these explosives at the market place. Lets see it for what it really is. ):

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by Yorick: This is an appallingly callous statement that shows little understanding of the holocaust. It has also enraged Jews and does little to foster goodwill. In an argument the quickest way to infuriate someone is to invalidate a persons suffering. The Jews were not attacking the Nazis, not sending in their children to blow up German cafes or weddings. The Israelis are not rounding up every Palestinian man woman and child, putting them into camps and gassing them en-masse. The Jews did not refuse to acknowledge Germanys right to exist as a nation, nor tell their children they would receive glory in the afterlife by killing German civilians. Totally ridiculous irresponsible analogy. One designed to make a point at the expense of the collective emotional health of Jews worldwide.[/QB]

its a broad analogy, but i do no think its made to make a point at the expense of the collective emotional health of jews worldwide. i think saramago (who, btw, is a brilliant man) made it to stir debate on the issue. to raise awareness on whats going on in the middle east.

suffering is only comprehended when you are the victim. so, obviously, i cant speak for the happenings of the holocaust or the palestinians. but, the palestinian people are going through things that will ring a bell... being outcasted from their ancestral home, seeing their new ones destroyed by artillery every day, being humilliated every time at checkpoints by israeli soldiers, not being able to work freely, to feed their childen, seeing the colones move further and further and occupy more of their territory. the death toll if you compare palestinian and israeli casualties is ridiculous.

anyways, its a very difficult issue and one that nobody will change their opinions, even less from reading text on a message board. and nothing we say is going to make a difference. its nice to hear the different opinions, though.

Originally posted by Evil Al: Remember that one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. In Scottish peoples eyes at the time William Wallace was our freedom fighter, our hero and inspiration for something better, but in the eyes of the English he was a terrorist and a traitor that only deserved a painful death. In a way he is just like the Arabs that take their own lives. Answer me this, if your home was taken from you would you either; except it or fight back anyway you can? I know what I would choose to do...

Evil Al [img]smile.gif[/img] You need to take a closer look at history. These people are not of the same sort as the Scots. These people are not fighting for freedom for the people and civil treatment for their men women and children. They are fighting for the right to opress and enslave their own, based on sex and age. Not a very noble fight for anyone with any sort of support for human dignity.

Originally posted by Smeagol II: Neb if a freedom fighter thinks that his his aims will justify attacking civilians then he will do so. And great post Yorick.

Only if you believe that the ends justify the means...which most CIVILIZED people realize is NOT true. If that were the case the israelis should just nuke the palistinians and wipe them off the face of the earth. Without the palistinians there is no fighting on the west bank or in the Gaza...so no problems...peace ensues and the end justified the means......I don't think so.

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: [qb]

its a broad analogy, but i do no think its made to make a point at the expense of the collective emotional health of jews worldwide. i think saramago (who, btw, is a brilliant man) made it to stir debate on the issue. to raise awareness on whats going on in the middle east.

suffering is only comprehended when you are the victim. so, obviously, i cant speak for the happenings of the holocaust or the palestinians. but, the palestinian people are going through things that will ring a bell... being outcasted from their ancestral home, seeing their new ones destroyed by artillery every day, being humilliated every time at checkpoints by israeli soldiers, not being able to work freely, to feed their childen, seeing the colones move further and further and occupy more of their territory. the death toll if you compare palestinian and israeli casualties is ridiculous.

anyways, its a very difficult issue and one that nobody will change their opinions, even less from reading text on a message board. and nothing we say is going to make a difference. its nice to hear the different opinions, though.[/QUOTE]

Hehe First Fable and now I agree with you...what is the world coming to? Oh by the way, Cool beans that Spain is actually involving itself in world affairs as temporary head of the EU.

[ 04-05-2002, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by fable: There's always going to be argument on this issue. I've read pro-Israeli accounts that emphasize that a lot less Arabs actually left the area than were previously stated, and Arab (and even some recent Israeli) accounts that present evidence showing Arabs were not paid for their land but frequently forced out at gunpoint. My own inclination when faced with contradictory evidence is to follow what appears to me as commonsense. Would every citizen in a town accept money to leave the land they'd lived on, been born on, and raised their kids on? Would they do it for a bunch of people who were clearly unbelievers? I'm highly doubtful of this. In any case, the fact that we differ just shows how confused the issues are. Each side believes earnestly in its truth. This isn't a question of Palestinian terrorists, or Israeli Nazis. It's a question of two diametrically opposed views of the past and the present, led by two men who hate each other, and what each other stands for.

Sure there are going to be disagreements. I have however seen far more evidence that the Palestinians left voluntarily than otherwise. Thus I go with 'commonsense'. If twelve say they saw a red car and two say they saw a purple car, I'd go with the twelve.

I disagree that Arafat and Sharon are the root of all evil and that this is about two men who hate each other. Before Sharon was Barak, before Barak, Netanyahu, before that Perez etc etc. The Israeli cause has always been self preservation in the face of extreme violence, hatred, and attempts to exterminate them.

Let's look at it in context. Israel was created after millions of Jews went to the gas chambers without a struggle.

Does anyone see a logical and justified reaction to that scenario? They had been victims of GENOICIDE.

When I see the Israeli reactions I hear "never again" ringing loud and clear. This is not a case of land for them, as it is with the Arabs, but of being allowed to exist as a race - a fundamental human right that was denied them by Nazi Germany, and is being embraced at the corners by the Arab world.

Propoganda abounds. On one hand we have Arabs who hve now come out and attempted to claim the holocaust as a falsification created by the Jews! On the other hand we have people equating the Israeli actions with the Nazis.

Both undermine the victimisation the Jews have received and remove the reason the Israeli state was created.

But then that's the whole point. Remove the reason it's created - remove the state itself.

[Neb]

Originally posted by Smeagol II: Neb if a freedom fighter thinks that his his aims will justify attacking civilians then he will do so. And great post Yorick.

Then he does, in my opinion, become a terrorist. Even if it will aid him in reaching his goal of "freedom", attacking civilians on purpose will still make him into a terrorist in MY EYES.