SoA and ToB difficulty, strategy, items (major spoilers probably ;))

[philip]

I'm in the final battle of ToB now. The first fight with Melissan was hard, but my difficulty setting has been on lowest through all ToB and in the final battle for SoA. I played the rest of SoA on core rules. These were 2 different games, I started ToB immediately cause I didn't feel like replaying all SoA.

I started on core rules as well but in the Marching Mountains I didn't like that anymore. I had to reload nearly every battle there if I didn't want a dead character in my party. So last week I started over with easiest setting. Most of the game was easy but at times the bosses gave me some trouble so I was rethinking my strategy, items, basically everything that could make it easier.

One thing I noticed was that if I reloaded a battle and took out the most damaging enemies at once the fights got easier.

But in some battles there's barely a difference, some of the boss encounters for example. Take Draconis, I won it at my third try (in the others one of the party members got killed) after a fight of like 15-30 minutes. The difference was a protection from fear thing (2nd or 3rd level priest spell). So knowing what comes so you can prepare or having the right spells available anyway is needed. From my battle with Sendai I learned you have to be careful with your spells. I won it on the first try but the end was annoying cause I didn't have any true seeing spells anymore (used 7 of them during the battle) and Sendai was invisible with spell and weapon protection on.

To keep party members alive longer equipment is a large factor I think. Now I have 6 members with the AC ranging from 9 (Edwin) to -6 (Sarevok) but I think this is pretty low. IIRC I had lower ACs at the end of SoA. So playing SoA before would be great for the equipment I have, right?

Not getting hit is not getting hurt. I use my low AC fighters and summons to keep the hard-hitting monsters away from my mages. Mostly I use spells that dispel protections and the occasional damage spell. Hit and run tactic gets a mess easily with 6 party members in a small area.

It can't be that hard LOL, some of you are soloing this so there must be something I'm not thinking of when I have trouble with some things.

One last thing about the fight with Melissan is that I read she's extremely hard to hit and that it gets harder every time she fights you. Is that because of a low AC or is that accomplished through spells. I didn't see any spell effects so I assumed she didn't use any but is that true. With +5 and +6 weapons I barely got any hits in at times but at other moments it just looked like she had AC 10 and everything hit her.

[Lord]

First of all, Edwin seems to have a major problem. His AC is 9?!?! You need the robe of vecna and the amulet of power from SoA to lower his AC and spell casting time. Do you keep up a stoneskin at all times. It's an essential spell for spell casters to protect them from fighters. Mirror Image is also like another stoneskin that lasts less, but can also take some spells as damage for you. Protection spells such as spell trap (using it from the staff of the magi is enough) will help you as well. Buffing up your spellcasters is very important. Buffs that I often use are stoneskin, mirror image, resist fear (sometimes), improved haste (from kangaxx's ring, which you missed in SoA), protection from evil if fiends are around (staff of the magi provides this. This staff is in SoA), then there are those spells that make you immune to some weapons (protection from magical weapons, mantle, improved mantle, absolute immunity), and protection from energy. ADHW is a great attack spell (level 8). And keep in mind that Time Stop is [i]the]/i] spell

You can easily get Sarevok to -9, or at least the double digits. Have you gone through Watcher's Keep and upgraded the items you found there through Cespenar? You can get some very powerful items to lower your AC and boost your resistances dramatically.

Are you using your HLAs? Abilities such as greater whirlwind are very powerful. GWW gives you 10 attacks per round, which is enough to damage Mellisan in a short amount of time. Hardiness will protect you a lot as well. There is an option through the Wish spell which allows you to cast hardiness on all of your party members.

[philip]

I ocassionaly use stoneskins etc. when it looks like my mages could take some damage otherwise I don't and let them fight ranged.

For the items I didn't go through SoA so I don't have them. I completed watcher's keep upgraded every item in the game and used most but it still didn't help much.

I have and use those HLAs but they didn't seem very efficient. Like I said it could be because she's got spells up without me seeing the effects but till she got to say injured barely any of thhe whirlwinds hit or did much damage.

[Lord]

For a mage, always keep a stoneskin up. It lasts for 12 full hours. You can cast one, go to sleep, and it will still be up for another 4 hours.

Make sure you dispel her protections (dispel magic might work, or ruby ray of reversal).

You should send Sarevok in to fight. Edwin can use energy blades to attack if you feel like you need an extra figher. Keep in mind that the spell Dragon Breath is party safe.

Who else is in your party, and what are there levels?

[Magness]

Philip, the fact that you didn't play the party thru SoA, I suppose means that you started this party fresh in ToB.

This means that you probably have less XP and lower levels for each character than if your party had played all the way thru SoA first. Also, you don't have any of the good SoA items. While there are plenty of good items in ToB, many of the best SoA items are great all the way thru ToB.

From the sounds of your initial post, I think that this is part of your problem. A serious lack of the great equipment that you'd have collected if you had played thru SoA.


I agree with Lord. Always keep stoneskins up on your mages. They last 12 hours and you can never know when your mage might take damage.

It's also a pretty good idea to almost always have a protection from Evil (10' radius) spell active on your party. It lasts for 1 turn/level, so it will last for a good long time and it's a good basic buffing spell.


The mage Emotion spell is great for "crowd control" in almost every situation where there's a big mob of humanoid enemies.


Against Melissan, it's almost a waste to bother buffing since she casts dispel magic so often. But your need to dispel her protections constantly. Regaardless of the enemy, if you see an enemy cast a Stoneskin, dispel it. Oh, I suppose against an only moderately powerful mage, you might just whack your way thru the stoneskins. But against a major boss type enemy like Melissan or Draconis, never let them leave a stoneskin spell up. It's hard enouogh to hit these enemies without having to get past 6+ stoneskins. (A Carsomyr wielding paladin is great for this task.)

The same goes for mirror image. You can usually take out mirror image quickly with one casting of Magic Missile (each MM takes out one MI) or a round or 2 of arrows from a good archer(s). Or True Sight will wipe out MI. But never let a MI protected mage stay protected for long.


And if you've got a great thief in your party with plenty of traps and a high Set Traps skill, use those traps to hurt her badly before she even starts attacking you.

This is how I wiped out Melissan easily in my last ToB game. My swashbuckler PC would leave at least a couple of regular traps and a Spike Trap where she would appear for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th battles. And boom! Melissan would be near death before she made her first attack.


The best way to be successful in battle in these games is to really understand your spells, know which ones work best in certain situations, know how to build a good party that can handle nearly eveyr situation, know how to get the most out of your party.

[philip]

I haven't had real trouble with my party and now at least I use dispells really often but since you've got to fight Melissan like 3 times or something I don't want to run out of dispells and I didn't see any buffs coming up but from your posts I see she has them.

I don't have any thief with high level traps since I think that's cheating a bit. I shouldn't really have trouble lol. Party is me, cleric/mage not reached the cap yet but not low level either. Somewhere around 20/21 IIRC. Edwin level 21, Keldorn level 26 or 27, Sarevok level 26/27, Korgan level 26/27, Jan don't know which level but he can't cast level 9 spells yet. I'll try again tomorrow but it looks like I'll go playing this again trough all SoA as well.

I think I'll get the battle done sometime. It was just general stuff not that I really tried hard yet (2 times) but I thought I have troubles with my tactics cause I play at low difficulty and just some monsters don't go well.

The only reason I choose to cast stoneskin before the fight is that you don't have to do it in the fight but mostly you can see it coming when the mages are in danger.

Thanks for the help!

[Magness]

philip, I cannot say for certain whether Mel is buffing herself. I don't specifically remember. I'm assuming that she does.

If you have Keldorn wielding Carsomyr, I'd keep whacking Mel with the HA just to keep any defenses she may cast down.

I like to use some summons against Mel to try to keep *HER* summons busy, while my party concentrates on her as best as possible.

I'm hard pressed to consider using traps "cheating". They are a part of the game. And I'm using them as they're intended to be used, not creating some sort of unintended or cheesey misuse . To each his own.

Another point. IIRC, Mel is immune to Time Stop, so I wouldn't bother trying that.

One thing that I do know about is that Mel *CAN* heal herself. Don't let her, if at all possible. It's hard enough to hurt her without having to do it all over again after a Heal spell.

[philip]

Originally posted by Magness: If you have Keldorn wielding Carsomyr, I'd keep whacking Mel with the HA just to keep any defenses she may cast down.

Carsomyr, sword you get from Firkraag? I don't have it. I don't know which I use now, it's a +5 that deals damage when the wielder gets damaged.

[Magness]

Carsomyr is otherwise known as the Holy Avenger. The paladins-only +5 two handed sword that dispels magic on every hit, among other things. It's a great reason for having a pally in any party.

[philip]

Originally posted by Magness: Carsomyr is otherwise known as the Holy Avenger. The paladins-only +5 two handed sword that dispels magic on every hit, among other things. It's a great reason for having a pally in any party.

Yep that's it. LOL looks like I have to play SoA again some time. I'll take it a few difficulty steps higher then though.