Help me and my band to decide a name.

[Dirty Meg]

[quote]Originally posted by philip:

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: [qb] Cause you don't like it? I think there are quite a lot of bands who didn't give in in playing more 'commercial'. And BTW being a bit commercial isn't that bad, don't forget that a lot of bands became so popular (not in the negative way) that music has become their source of income, with the great result of more live shows

Notice I said 'commercial success in the last decade'. I'm not opposed to commercial success a priori, particularly since about half the bands I mentioned were, in fact, very successful in their time. It just so happens that in the late 80s/early 90s record companies were all taken over by money grubbing child molesters and since then, no one in the record industy has given a thought to the quality of the music they were producing. Most current alt-rock bands are musically inept and incapable of anything even slightly imaginative such as a change in dynamics or more than two sections in a song. Rap has not progressed at all since 1990. All recent rap is just the same sort of thing NWA and Ice-tea (yes I know) were doing 10-15 years ago. Manufactured pop has always been complete shite, but recent manufactured pop isn't even well produced shite. I've heard recordings made in bedrooms more professional sounding than 'spice girls' and 'steps'.

Of course most of this is just my opinion, but it is also objectively true.

[Vaskez]

If you say it's "just your opinion" then say it's also objectively true, you're saying your opinion is the truth and that's going a bit far. Anyway, rap HAS progressed quite a lot since NWA and Ice-T or don't tell me you haven't heard of 2Pac who came after them? Then there's Nas who's done tonnes of original stuff. I could go on...

[Dirty Meg]

How are 2pac or Nas progressions from NWA or Ice-T? Their lyrics are generally about the same sort of thing and their music is more or less the same.

[Vaskez]

That's a pretty ignorant statement and I'm trying hard not to insult you for saying crap like that at the moment [img]tongue.gif[/img]

anyway I'm tired of having to explain to everyone so I'm not even gonna bother. You don't like it, it's up to you, but your last post is bollocks.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Vaskez: If you say it's "just your opinion" then say it's also objectively true, you're saying your opinion is the truth and that's going a bit far. Anyway, rap HAS progressed quite a lot since NWA and Ice-T or don't tell me you haven't heard of 2Pac who came after them? Then there's Nas who's done tonnes of original stuff. I could go on...

I agree that Nas did some interesting things (I'll even admit to like some of his stuff), but he is responsible for one of the worst sample implementations in sample history, resulting in one of the worst songs I've ever heard - seriously. I mean, come on! For I can, he sampled one of the most overplayed pieces in the entire history of music (Beethoven's Für Elise) and put an awful chorus line over it seemingly sung by vulgar chipmunks on helium. Anyone who thought that was a good idea to put into a song almost doesn't deserve to be remembered favorably in music history.

[ 06-07-2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Dirty Meg]

Originally posted by Vaskez: That's a pretty ignorant statement and I'm trying hard not to insult you for saying crap like that at the moment [img]tongue.gif[/img] anyway I'm tired of having to explain to everyone so I'm not even gonna bother. You don't like it, it's up to you, but your last post is bollocks.

Trying hard not to insult me? I wouldn't have thought it takes too much effort not to insult someone. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest it is easier not to insult someone than to insult them. There are 6 billion people in the world and in the course of my life I have only insulted at most a couple of dozen.
Ignorant of what exactly? I know what Nas sounds like. I know what Ice-T sounds like. What else is there to know?

[philip]

Originally posted by Dirty Meg: Notice I said 'commercial success in the last decade'. I'm not opposed to commercial success a priori, particularly since about half the bands I mentioned were, in fact, very successful in their time. It just so happens that in the late 80s/early 90s record companies were all taken over by money grubbing child molesters and since then, no one in the record industy has given a thought to the quality of the music they were producing. Most current alt-rock bands are musically inept and incapable of anything even slightly imaginative such as a change in dynamics or more than two sections in a song. Rap has not progressed at all since 1990. All recent rap is just the same sort of thing NWA and Ice-tea (yes I know) were doing 10-15 years ago. Manufactured pop has always been complete shite, but recent manufactured pop isn't even well produced shite. I've heard recordings made in bedrooms more professional sounding than 'spice girls' and 'steps'. Of course most of this is just my opinion, but it is also objectively true.

Well I was thinking in the metal it wasn't that bad in the 90's. For example a certain blackmetal band (mind you I don't like blackmetal anymore especially after having seen following lyrics) that had really sick lyrics but the company did release the cd only those lyrics weren't printed in the book. And there are a lot of other examples of cases in which record companies weren't thinking of getting a lot of money. Even now some aren't more commercial than strictly necessary to survive. Over here in Europe most CDs cost like $18-$20 and I can get most of the CDs I want for around $10 maximum $15 (and not because nobody wants to listen them [img]tongue.gif[/img] ).

For rap and pop I agree with you (just MHO as well). What do you consider new alt-rock bands. I haven't listened much in the past years except CDs and internet radio/

[Vaskez]

Nas did a lot of stuff Ice-T and NWA didn't:

- Do songs where the story is told backwards
- Songs where the he goes from quiet to loud to quiet
- IIRC he was the first to do songs from different interesting perspectives e.g. one song rapping as if he was a gun and one song where he rapped as if he was a prison cell - so interesting techniques and good use of metaphors, similes etc.
- While I liked NWA most of their songs were about drugs guns and "biches" while Nas rapped about a much wider range of topics from growing up in New York to pressure on children in education to religious issues to career overviews (ok this has been done by a few people) to some EXCELLENT narratives ( the only NWA narrative I can remember is Gangsta Gangsta but it's not as good as Nas's ones) anyway, I could go on...

[Grojlach]

Prefuse 73, DJ Shadow, RJD2, Madvillain... Those prove that hiphop is still developing as a genre. Okay, so their main focus is on beats and experimentation as opposed to lyrics (DJ Shadow and RJD2 are practically instrumental hiphop, which in itself isn't all that bad an idea [img]tongue.gif[/img] ), but who still listens to hiphop for the lyrics nowadays, anyway? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But seriously, even top selling artists/producers like the Black Eyed Peas, the Neptunes/N*E*R*D and Kanye West sometimes manage to come up with original beats that are both artistically and commercially interesting, even though a part of their work is about as interesting as Nas's I can.

[Dirty Meg]

I'm not saying that Nas or 2pac lack musical or lyrical value, I am just saying that I don't think they represent a major progress from earlier music of the same genre. The differences you have listed don't seem to represent a huge creative leap. Ice-T was also sometimes political rather than overtly 'gangsta'ish and had intresting narrative structure in his lyrics.
Of course I don't think my opinion is objective truth. That was intended as a joke.