The U.S. as seen from a world perspective, politically. Your opinion please!

The hostility I preceiced was not from you Absynthe but the comment sort of caught me at the right time. I knew when I decided to post on here that I would be in the minority, but didn't expect to be accused of being a republican or for dirty water and air. I had my say and I guess thats enough. My real message that I really wanted to get accross is that you should never accept at face value what the media is feeding you. Always doubt the extremists on either side of an issue, they are always wrong, at least in my experience the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Pax


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[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Rikard: Milamber You say that to get an objective view on a US-China Matter should be found at the American Commercial TV-Channel CNN????? I don't think so... I got my information from a Neutral Non-Commercial Newschannel (though the are a bit too US-minded in my opinion) in the Netherlands Further more You are mad because I think the Democrats are socialist What is wrong with socialism? What is wrong with think that you shouldn't let people die of hunger when they cannot get job? Are you aware that the US has about the lowest Tax rates in the western world and that also in the US the difference between the poor and rich is the biggest in the western world? I'm a Socialist By Heart and I'm proud of it There's nothing wrong with socialism as long as it's not turned to Communism And sorry to say it but i rather have a communist country then a fasist country About the election system It's the system that bugges me not the method The fact that the populair vote does not deside the president

I think that CNN is one of the most neutral news sources out there. Do you think our government controls our press? Hell no! The press is one of the biggest factors controlling the government. Believe me, they don't balk at posting something that the government/military doesn't like. The American government said one thing, the Chinese said another. Who is this Netherlands agency that knows what really happened though? If they know what happened, they should tell the Americans because I guess we got it all wrong then. I think you should check your sources, but I'm not going to argue over something that neither of us can prove.

On the democratic thing. Our democracy doesn't allow people to starve to death either. I wouldn't agree with any government that would allow any of it's citizens to starve to death. Socialism isn't the only form of government to take care of it's population, but it is one of two goverments that will lead their populations lives for them. I do believe that people should get jobs based on their achievements. I believe that everyone should be able to work their way up to whatever station their ablity/drive merits without a government limiting their progression. There shouldn't be any free rides. The socialist model, as a model is interesting and a nice concept. Show me one time that it has worked though. You say you want to be able to vote, then you turn around and say you want to give all the power to the government.

Lastly, I'm not sure, but did you indirectly call America a Fascist country? You didn't name any examples in that last sentence, but we were comparing Americas system of government to socialism and then you said you would rather have communism over fascism - leading me to believe you were insinuating we were fascists. If there was no implication, then it was a painfully obvious and poorly thought out statement. Who in their right mind would choose Fascism over any type of government? The way you framed your statement, the only reasonable conclusion would be the one that you yourself came to,that anything is better then fascism, yet the statement itself has absolutely nothing to do with anything, unless you are saying that Americans are fascists. I hope that wasn't your intention. If that wasn't your intention, please reframe the statement.

BTW, Please don't tell me I'm mad when I'm not. Merely seeking clarification.

Skywalker, I agree the voting fiasco last year was a bad example of our voting system, but that was one area. There are many other areas that are very advanced in their voting. It just so happens that one of the poorer examples got the most attention.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[This message has been edited by MILAMBER (edited 09-05-2001).]

[Kaz]

Originally posted by MagiK: The hostility I preceiced was not from you Absynthe but the comment sort of caught me at the right time. I knew when I decided to post on here that I would be in the minority, but didn't expect to be accused of being a republican or for dirty water and air. I had my say and I guess thats enough. My real message that I really wanted to get accross is that you should never accept at face value what the media is feeding you. Always doubt the extremists on either side of an issue, they are always wrong, at least in my experience the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Pax

I don't agree with you, but as has been proved you will not change your mind and I am also very sure of my position. After all, this is the General Discussions Forum.
Pax

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I am the great Kazara

Kaz in ALL of history?? are you sure?? ALL of HISTORY??? or was it just a year that "statisticly" still within the norm? It wasn't that bad a year, In 1976 I remember the "Storm of the Century" that covered most of the USA in feet of snow. I remember another "Storm of the Century" that was so bad they even made a movie out of it. (fortunately for me that storm was in the North East USa and I was living in Puerto Rico at the time). Im sorry if this is argumentative but Ive lived through far worse years than 2000, in 1959 to 1961 30 million people starved to death in China in what has been recorded as one of the worst natural disasters of the modern age....didnt get much press coverage as the chinese government was not allowing news in and out untill recently.

India has always had huge floods every year but they don't always publicize it, when you have a billion people packed into small spaces floods can be devastating. As for the USA the year 2000 was SUPPOSED to be a year of record carnage with billions of dollars in damage from more hurricanes than ever before...only it didnt happen...yes there were a few records set for flooding in the mid west, then again what do you expect to happen when you build up cities on flood plains?

Kaz I dont know if the year 2000 was any worse than any other year, all I know is that the areas I traveled to were pretty much unaffected so I have no first hand knowledge to refute you with. Somehow I would expect the worst year ever to affect me more....

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[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-05-2001).]

kaz I want to make sure you understand My last post was not ment to be a flame I mean it when I use smileys Im just commenting.

And yes we may not agree and I am as inflexible as the next egotisticle middle aged old guy but I rarely ever fail to admit it if I am proved wrong....at least not when I can see that Im wrong.

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[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-05-2001).]

I think that CNN is one of the most neutral news sources out there. Do you think our government controls our press? Hell no! The press is one of the biggest factors controlling the government. Believe me, they don't balk at posting something that the government/military doesn't like. The American government said one thing, the Chinese said another. Who is this Netherlands agency that knows what really happened though? If they know what happened, they should tell the Americans because I guess we got it all wrong then. I think you should check your sources, but I'm not going to argue over something that neither of us can prove.

I Do Not Belive they are controlled by the goverment
However CNN is undoubtly American and whatever you say CNN is not a ever neutral source, which was also shown during the Kosovo crisis. It's not healthy to base you judgement upon one news source only
There was a topic here and there was factual evidence in there that states it was definatly NOT china's fault.

About socialism

From what i know
England is a Sociasit Country
Netherlands is a Socialist Country
Germany is close to being a Socialist country
The Socialist parties in Europe Hold over 30/40% of the votes
That's your working socialist countries for ya

What you call socialist is what i call communism
And i admit Russia went wrong, China went wrong and Cuba went wrong
But that does not mean Socialism doesn't work
I't's communism that doesn't work

You are proud of America being Capitist, that everybody has a change to be great if they are capible
automaticly the lesser capible cannot rise
And it's one step away from killing them because they are not needed
that's fasism for ya
just as socialism is one step away from capitalism
It's a big step and it will probable never be made
But if you say socialism and communism is the same
Fasism and capitalism is the same

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OMG I have no Arms
Wait I don't have a body either
But i DO have a Desert Eagle

[Kaz]

Erm, Rikard... I would not say that Capitalism and Fascism are the same. To me, Fascism would be (an extreme example) Germany under Hitler. I also prefer Socialism (not Communism) to Capitalism, I'm not exactly sure what Germany is right now, though. And another thing - in Goettingen, the Anti-Fascists (Antifa) are very numerous. I don't think they're completely Anti-American (at least I hope not).
A little test to how much the American news says about other countries: how much did you Americans hear about BSE and Foot and Mouth Disease in Europe?

BTW I found the site I was referring to before, the one that shows the average yearly temperature in Germany. Unfortunately, its in German. Would anybody like me to post the link?

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I am the great Kazara

Well it was bound to happen Rikard and I agree about Something CNN is a useless waste of noise. You really cannot use CNN as an unbiased news source

Umm you are maybe a bit too extreme about the US being a Fascist Captialism. The ones who are capable do indeed succeed, those who work hard can succeed...those who decide not to try, live on welfare at a level of comfort the poor of any other nation would see as extravagent. Yes there are holes in the system and NO I am not saying everyone on welfare is lazy and not trying. I started out on welfare and managed to succeed anyway. Now I suppose I qualfy as upper middle income by US standards. Hey say what you want but at least for me, hard work and perserverence worked for me under this system, I doubt that my story would be the same if I had lived anywhere else....

I truely am curious are there any people on this board who started out in your country in what passes for "poor" who have become wealthy? or well to do..or done even better? Is it even possible to cross "class" barriers in any other country...The ones I visited in my time didn't seem to have this fairly unique blend of opportunity. (when I started adult life at 18 I had 3 sets of clothes work, home and church) and I was earning less than 12k a year.)

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Kaz I dont know about anyone else but I've heard and read quite a lot about Hoof and Mouth disease and the havok its causing on your side of the ocean.

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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.