Ironworks will live on!

[norompanlasolas]

well barry, i come and go depending on my rl, so im not around much. but this definitely isnt the forum i subscribed into. i remember the war forum, and all the debating there (as you probably do too). there were posts back then that would have got the person banned in 2 secs now, but in that time it was perfecly fine. and i never spammed (i dont even like the word), but ive seen much worse than this.

now it seems as if pc has gone wild and the moderators gone mad, and people are getting banned and leaving all over the place. but hey, its your forum, so do whatever you want with it. what i do agree with is that in the end its really not that important, its just a virtual forum in internet, and (hopefully), people have their real lives to take care of.

[Timber Loftis]

*thump thump whack*
. . . .
"No sir, no response."
"AGAIN TROOPER!"

*sigh*
*smack thump whack*
. . . .
"No sir, nothing, this horse is *dead*"
"AGAIN TROOPER"

*sigh*

IMHO, it is impossible to express a thought on this topic that has not been espoused in the last 72 hours. But, if you so like to hear yourself ranting, please do continue.

[Ronn_Bman]

noro, I remember the heat of the old War Forum well. [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Again, I'll point out, no one's been banned for their political views. It's all been from personal, confrontational conflicts with Ziroc and the mods. All over the deletion of a couple of spam threads and the locking of a few others. No one is holding back the members here, except certain members themselves.

I don't think the mods have gone mad. Too much has been made over the respect mods thread. It was never intended as a "respect mods because they are supreme beings", it was always "respect mods decisions because they MODERATE THIS forum".

I haven't seen mods doing anything in the last two weeks or two months that I haven't seen them doing in the last two years. The difference in the past few weeks has been open defiance.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Barry, it's really always been this way. People like it here or they don't, and if they don't like it, or have grown not to like, there really is no point in staying. You have been away and so have missed quite a bit. Check out the Respect Moderators threads(one by Ziroc and another by Memnoch) and the "ping" and "pong" series. The rudeness runs rampant. We aren't talking about banishments for dislike of political opinions, we are talking about rude comments made towards mods and Ziroc. Things said to Ziroc in his own forum about his decisions to run his forum. Check out the locked poll by Azure, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Would you allow someone to come into your house and talk to you or your family that way? Of course you wouldn't. While you may want guests to come over and have a good time; you wouldn't let them tell you how you should run your house. Barry you get along just fine here despite not conforming to the POVs that some say are mandated by IW. You disagree and make good points. You debate, and you argue, but you are always respectful of those you disagree with. That doesn't mean you're kissing anyone's butt, does it? Of course it doesn't. It means you're being a nice guy with a different opinion who's had no trouble following the rules here. Ziroc and the mod's role has not changed in the last two years, but some people have decided they don't want to follow the rules and the management's interpretation or enforcement of them. It's sad to see some go, but if they didn't resort to name calling or refusal to follow the rules....

Ronn, I know I'm not in danger of being chucked out any time soon. And I will say I completely disagree with some of the methods used so far in bringing up critiscm. I have read the threads in question, its taken me most of the day but I thought I might as well - its better than working!

I know why the people were banned or left. I read the Ping thread and I don't think the vast majority of the stuff in there was malicious, and if people are going to be banned for spamming then I think we have serious problems around that don't just rest with one or two members. I also know there was other stuff involved in that particular incident, which wasn't at all justified, yet neither was it inexplicable.

And, my major contention, I have read both mods threads about Respect. It is not my place to question the behaviour of anyone in those threads, but a lot of it worries me. As far as I can tell there are very few rude comments in there except from LoA, who as far as I know is still here. Fine by me, he seems like a nice guy and it was probably an alcohol fuelled moment of indiscretion ( [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). I do feel sorry for Neb but he asked to leave, if he is happy with that then its ok with me.

I suppose my point is that there is a reason IW has over 10000 members, and its not because spamming is not allowed, or because everyone respects the mods. Its because somehow an atmosphere has been created here of general respect for everyone, whoever they may be. When we start to lose that over small issues then I think we might have lost what we were trying to protect in the first place.

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I suppose my point is that there is a reason IW has over 10000 members, and its not because spamming is not allowed, or because everyone respects the mods. Its because somehow an atmosphere has been created here of general respect for everyone, whoever they may be. When we start to lose that over small issues then I think we might have lost what we were trying to protect in the first place.

And that's really the most important part. People have started to lose that respect for one another, and it isn't based on anything Z or the mods did. After the fact, they've been made into scape goats for insisting people follow the rules, and further villainized for saying don't do it anymore.

You and I certainly come from different ends of the political spectrum, so if we, and so many others, can get along, shouldn't everyone here be able to?

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: *thump thump whack* . . . . "No sir, no response." "AGAIN TROOPER!" *sigh* *smack thump whack* . . . . "No sir, nothing, this horse is *dead*" "AGAIN TROOPER" *sigh* IMHO, it is impossible to express a thought on this topic that has not been espoused in the last 72 hours. But, if you so like to hear yourself ranting, please do continue.

Yeah, yeah, I know. But all the threads on the issue are locked and this is a big thing, like Sigmar said in Cloudys Cafe - most of the people I knew are gone now for one reason or another (and I know some of it is RL stuff, you know what I mean). Forgive me for wanting to voice my opinion, which isn't exactly inflammatory. Lets face it, the thread was pretty one sided until I got here. It was in danger of becoming boring. (j/k)

[realbinky]

I have been away since Thursday, and look what happens. I missed my chance to post earlier on this, so I'm taking my turn now. Neb was a good debater. I agreed with >50% of his posts on serious subjects. However, that does not make him not guilty of breaking any rules that he broke. I'm not saying he DID or DID NOT, I didn't see it. And I'm not picking on Neb, he's an example, and had a short name. At least one Moderator (Mod from here on) saw it, and that is good enough for me. All this talk of respect, I don't have to respect the mods to do what they tell me, in this case, they are not a person, they are a non-person correcting something I have done wrong. In a discussion they take part in, they are not mods, they are great people to talk with. ALL of them. This being said, I do respect and cherish them all. I hardly know any of them, so why this attitude? Because ZIROC knows them well and has tapped them to help him. I have enormous respect (and admiration, and thanks above all) for what Z (with oversight from you-know-which-cat) and what he has wrought. If a moderator is good enough for him, he (sorry Cloudy and other female mods [img]smile.gif[/img] ) is damn well good enough for me. Keep up the good work, and know that most of us support you all.

You know, I hate cats in general, but somehow, Choc ain't so bad, just from association with HE WHO IS Z.

Happy Thanksgiving in advance for those who celebrate it. Happy Thursday for those who do not.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: Yeah, yeah, I know. But all the threads on the issue are locked and this is a big thing, like Sigmar said in Cloudys Cafe - most of the people I knew are gone now for one reason or another (and I know some of it is RL stuff, you know what I mean). Forgive me for wanting to voice my opinion, which isn't exactly inflammatory. Lets face it, the thread was pretty one sided until I got here. It was in danger of becoming boring. (j/k)

Hey Barry! OH NO! You do realize I'll ruin your rep, just by posting to you [img]graemlins/kissy2.gif[/img] hehe... well I might as well HUG you, it can't get any worse.

Seriously though, you were polite. I don't care if someone disagrees with my opinion on the inedibility of turnips, how to raise a goldfish or whether nuclear war is imminent....so long as they remain civil and don't flameout. You are usually quite civil in your debates [img]smile.gif[/img]

PS: Several people posted on this in the Cafe around page 4 or 5, so I'd suggest you read their answers to Sigmar if you want more input. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-25-2002, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Cloudbringer]

ONE very important point, Barry, just to set the record straight here. NOBODY was just 'banned for spamming'. The one who was banned in that spam series flipped off a moderator who told him it was NOT ok to post one word spamfests. Completely defied and ignored a moderator. Not once, but twice! I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable. I saw what BGDungeon became when it started to be fashionable to tell the mods and owner to f-off and not keep it flame free. It was ugly- I'm betting anyone who saw that can tell you it wasn't pleasant posting there in the end.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Hey Barry! OH NO! You do realize I'll ruin your rep, just by posting to you [img]graemlins/kissy2.gif[/img] hehe... well I might as well HUG you, it can't get any worse. Seriously though, you were polite. I don't care if someone disagrees with my opinion on the inedibility of turnips, how to raise a goldfish or whether nuclear war is imminent....so long as they remain civil and don't flameout. You are usually quite civil in your debates [img]smile.gif[/img] PS: Several people posted on this in the Cafe around page 4 or 5, so I'd suggest you read their answers to Sigmar if you want more input. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Not Cloudy! Get her off me! Get her off me!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I'm not really talking about my fears of being banned, I know I am not likely to be banned myself unless I do something stupid. But I also don't want to lie down and take this one. I don't agree with what is being done, sorry but there it is. I raise my critiscm in reasonable tones and hope it doesn't offend.

My point is that most people involved in this *have* been civil in their debates. I can't remember the time when Neb ever posted in anger. He may have been a bit spammy about the edges and that may have annoyed people but I always found him civil personally.

And I did see the responses to Sigmar, thats why I said I understood that people had RL concerns, but I think the point still stands. For one reason or another a lot of people have gone in the last couple of days who I used to fraternise with.

BTW, I'm hearing a rumour that Kaltia has been banned. I can't see her sig anywhere, thats for sure - and she did have stuff in there about the Neb and LS situation. But she doesn't have the "Banned Troll" avatar. Can anyone confirm or deny this?