Canadian troops die under US friendly fire

[Victor von Steiner]

I am an ex-reservist and i have noticed that reservists don't get as much training as regular forces. Yes they get the same training they just don't get the same amount of training as the regular forces.

Regular forces get training everyday where as reservists don't.

[dizzy]

yet when activated the resrvist becomes battle ready
but the point is it could have happened in any branch of the military

[Victor von Steiner]

They still have to go thru more training to get battle ready. We don't know if this pilot was called up before he was fully battle trained. Only an investigation will tell what exactly happened. So before anyone else jumps to conclusions lets wait for the investigation to be completed first before we lay the blame on someone.

Originally posted by Victor von Steiner: Let me set something straight. The pilot was NOT given permission to fire. He was ordered not to fire he was allowed to paint the target only. The pilot in question was a reservist. The Canadians were on a live-fire exercise near Khandahar.

Sorry for the false information on the post, all I was basing my post on was a report on the WMAL radio station here in DC, as I said, more info wil come out as the investigation ensues....please note that I never said I had the definitive answer on what exactly happened. My area if info is more Navy and Marine oriented for Airforce info I rely on the news just like everyone else [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: [QB] QB] Fair enough. But so far, since the arrival of US troops in Afghanistan, this is the third case of death by friendly fire cause by the US. Similar incidents also took place during Desert Storm and in Viet-Nam. This doesn't count for friendly fire death during peace keeping missions and collateral damages. The fact is the pilot was flying within a designated live-fire training zone for the ground troops. If he though he was under small-arms fire, all he had to do was to climb over 2,500' AGL and he would have been out of range. Did he do that? No, he twice asked permission to fire and it was twice denied. Still, he droped the bomb which resulted in the death of friendly forces. If you ask any foreing military if they think that the US forces are trigger-happy, I think that you'll be unhappy about the answer! Sorry, it's the stereotype that's out there! Now, to the training issue. If your forces are not trained to adequate professional standards, then you should keep them at home until they are! Don't sent untrained forces in combat and put them beside trained personnel. They're more a liability than anything else. Don't get me wrong. Not all American forces are incapable, in fact, the majority of them are well trainned and capable. Like everywhere else, you've got your rotten apple (don't worry, we have some too )

Ok I thought the number of "mistakes" or accidents was higher myself but I am not keeping that close a tab (finals are coming up and I work full time too)

I would ask though how many accidents vs how many thousands of sorties? say there have been..say 2 dozen 24 accidents..out of more than 10,000 sorties....24 out of 10,000 not to shabby a rate of success....but it can be way better.

[Victor von Steiner]

I had to get my info from the news also. They were talking to a Major from the American Central Command about what happened.

[Argus]

Originally posted by Avatar: I mean this kind of thing never happens to British pilots of the Royal Airforce.

Hmmm, ever hear of The Sheffield Incident? Plus, there were several incidents of friendly fire in the Falklands War, if I remember right.

I think Ryanamur makes the very valid point that these incidents will happen to all militaries and I can't agree more with the condolences expressed by Magik.

And as a side note concerning Ryanamur's comment on incidents of Israeli friendly fire, the bombing of the USS Liberty during the Six Day War stands out in my mind as one of the most infamous "friendly fire" incidents on record.

Just the contribution from a military history buff.

[Ryanamur]

[quote]Originally posted by Argus:

And as a side note concerning Ryanamur's comment on incidents of Israeli friendly fire, the bombing of the USS Liberty during the Six Day War stands out in my mind as one of the most infamous "friendly fire" incidents on record. Just the contribution from a military history buff.

I stand corrected. Thank you Argus. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Nonetheless, military technology is much different since the 1990s than it was back then. With today's GPS's and advanced communications systems, there's no reason for what happened yesterday. It's a human error that should have never happened.

Another little quick fact: close to 25% of the US death during Desert Storm were caused by their own friendly fire!

[ 04-19-2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

[Argus]

Ryanamur,

You're correct about the "friendly fire" figures from the Gulf War, 35 out of 150 or something along those lines. However, the use of percentages in this case is a little misleading since the overall casualty number among Allied forces was so low.

The absolute number of 35 is telling in and of itself whether its 25% or 2%. Its chilling to think that the technology of war is such that in a large scale action such as the Gulf War only 150 Allied troops are killed, but the technology is not sufficient to keep 35 soldiers from dying from mistakes.

War is hell...regardless of the statistics.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Argus: quote: Originally posted by Avatar: I mean this kind of thing never happens to British pilots of the Royal Airforce.

Hmmm, ever hear of The Sheffield Incident? Plus, there were several incidents of friendly fire in the Falklands War, if I remember right.

I think Ryanamur makes the very valid point that these incidents will happen to all militaries and I can't agree more with the condolences expressed by Magik.

And as a side note concerning Ryanamur's comment on incidents of Israeli friendly fire, the bombing of the USS Liberty during the Six Day War stands out in my mind as one of the most infamous "friendly fire" incidents on record.

Just the contribution from a military history buff.[/QUOTE]Far be it for me to be pedantic about this but the Sheffield Incident involved pilots of the Royal Navy rather than the RAF.

One other fact. More British servicemen were killed by Americans than by Iraqis in the Gulf War.