Job woes (seeking advice)

[Bungleau]

Good move, Larry. No sense cutting things off now.

Without knowing a lot more details, it's hard to give you more thoughts beyond what's already been seen. That probably won't stop me, however

The fact that others are thinking of leaving, potential because of this person, raises questions. Documentation will be your best friend.... document *every* interaction that takes place with her. Advise your coworkers to do the same thing.... the more documentation, the better one's position.

Also ask people to document their versions of things that happen... should you get yelled at again, ask your coworkers to document what they saw, heard, and felt. If your supervisor objects, get HR involved right away.

Whether or not it merits a full investigation depends on the scope of what's involved, and that's something the documentation will show.

Good luck, amigo.

[Larry_OHF]

Yes, we should all be documenting these episodes with the senior manager. Just today, I was speaking with a fifth person who started the same day I did and she was talking about how she had been yelled at as though the manager had suffered some psychotic episode, coming out on the floor to do it nonetheless, and screaming about something that should not have been an issue. We have PTO time that we can take at anytime, as long as the calander allows it...and this girl asked off on a day that the calander allowed...and the manager came storming out of her office to reprimend her for not going through her immediate supervisor first...though that is not the policy...the policy is to submit the request to the person who coordinates the calander. It's one thing to be yelled at for something one has done...but here are two instances, mine and her's, where we've been yelled at for doing what is right and written as standard acceptable practice. The woman is truly crazy.

Yes, documentation on these events is a good idea. I'll see if I can lead the way one that.

Oh...yeah, I remember another lady who's wanting to leave say that one day she spent nearly an hour on the phone with a person who was difficult and giving her a hard time about some charges on his account but she worked with him as best she could...but the manager in question came to her later, yelling (again in public) that she was going to refuse to pay her for that wasted hour!!! As if my friend wanted to be on the phone listening to the upset custimer for that long!

[Bungleau]

Yep. Document everything... keep copies in a safe place that is not at work. Be sure to include details... dates, times, locations.

Good luck. It won't be pretty. But it will be right.

[Memnoch]

Just to add to what others have said.

First question - do you enjoy your job otherwise? If you didn't have to deal with this person, would you stay?

If yes, then you should consider staying and ask for a transfer if you have to. Talk to your HR department and keep the conversation factual rather than emotional. Provide evidence supporting your case if you can. See if you can swing something where you don't have to deal with this person. If no, then start looking around while you are still there, but concentrate on your personal situation. Do the absolute minimum you need to do to meet your deliverables but otherwise use your time on a job search. Update your resume if you have a private office or cube. Network with people. If you have to take time off, then do so. Don't burn your bridges, and don't be unprofessional, but look after yourself first. Nobody else will look after you but yourself. Don't waste your time on unnecessary work to gain brownie points that you won't be using anyway.

Second question - assuming the answer to the first was no. Can you handle sticking it out?

If the answer is yes, then stick it out till you can get another job. If the answer is no, then count how much money you have in the bank, so you can figure out how much time you can be unpaid and support your family. You'll then need to make a career decision as to whether or not you're willing to risk leaving the workforce to engage in a full time job search. Talk to recruiters to see what the job market is like for the jobs that you would be going for (cold call them if you have to). Make sure you understand what your wiggle room is, and weigh that up against having to deal with this person and their eccentricities. Keep in mind that if you have an employment gap of any substantial time here in the US, they seem to make a big deal of you having to explain it (in the UK and OZ you can have a gap of a year and tell them you went travelling to "find yourself and grow personally" and nobody bats an eyelid).

Personally, I was in a similar situation you are in now - I enjoyed the director I was reporting to, but we had a senior manager whose only reason he was a senior manager was because of seniority. We were going for the same position when the previous manager (who hired me) left, but I had only been there 3 months and he had been there 2 years so he got the nod, and since then he proceeded to make my life a misery in all sorts of subtle and annoying political ways. After a year or so of this I got jacked off with it and asked myself the questions I posted above - did I enjoy my job if I didn't have to deal with this person? Yes - but after inquiring with my boss it became apparent that it was going to be hard to swing a transfer. So the next question - could I stick it out? That came out to be a no since I was so jacked off with this bloke and it was affecting my health and stress level. And since I wanted to start my own business anyway and be my own boss (and not deal with all the political BS that comes with corporate life) I decided to quit.

In my case quitting was a better option as I needed time to engage in a full time business search, talk to business brokers, do valuations, line up financing etc, none of which I could do at work when I was working 60-80hrs a week. But before I did it I made sure I understood my financial situation, how long I could fully engage in a business search and all the costs those entailed, plus maintain a curtailed lifestyle (e.g. no more eating out at nice places every week, fewer holidays etc). I figured I could be off the workforce for a year spending time looking for a business to buy if I tightened my belt and lived frugally, spending most of my buffer money on my search. Only then did I make my decision and I was happy I did it. But be informed and make a decision on rationality, not emotion.

Good luck with it mate

[Larry_OHF]

Thanks for the post, Memnoch. The senior manager has seen to it to block my ability to transfer out by writing me up for some things she decided to overblow and make something of that was not there. Once one is on written remediation, there can be no transfers. I had tried previously to acquire a position in other departments before but lost out to people who were more qualified.

At this time, I am sticking it out, trying to do the best I can to be able to say I did not slack off or become rebellious, but she knows that I am leaving as soon as I can find work elsewhere. In the meantime, not only am I looking for work all over the US, I am also looking into a business license to do PC repair and upgrades. I bet there's not many techie guys who can also speak Spanish and has a history in customer service all three. I intend to get into the Hispanic market to advertise my services. I am currently working on the business permits, which will cost $50 each (one for home occupation, one for the business itself).

If it works out, I may extend my business to include a chocolate-making company. I am aware of another chocolate store who runs hours of "by appointment", which means you call him up or order online and then go pick up the chocolates where they're made. I can do that out of my own home as well, and would not terribly distract from the PC business which I would hope to have a couple PCs a week to work on, until I get the feel for how things are going to go.

[gaijinalways]

You might want to consider even looking for work outside of the US. It might not be the best time, but there are oppotunities if you move. Of course, this may depend on your finances and your thoughts about working overseas. I currently live in Japan where the economy is not the best, but better than than in the US.

Of course for new job seekers, I wouldn't say the timing is the best. There are IT related jobs available here, would depend on your knowledge and experience. I teach at universities, and luckily I haven't seen a negative effect yet, though we have other cost cutting efforts going on which may affect availability of additional courses in the future.

It's big decision, but it can change your world in more ways than one.

[Cerek]

It sounds like you've made the right decision, Larry. I personally would not recommend quitting a job right now just because you don't like your supervisor. The job market (in NC especially) is horrible and there is nor guarantee that you will get a better supervisor even if you are lucky enough to find another job. I sympathise with your situation; I've been there myself. But John D. is right when he says stress is easier to handle on a full belly than an empty stomach.

When I was fired (unjustly, IMO), in 2005, it took 7 months for me to find another job - and that was with me going through Job Service training every week and lining up interviews with any company remotely related to jobs I felt qualified for.

Make sure you document everything that happens on your job every day; not just the "bad" interactions with your supervisor. I suggest keeping a journal on your home PC. Each afternoon (or evening), take 15-30 minutes to document how work went that day. If you had any negative interactions from your boss, make sure you document day, time, nature of her complaint and your version of the situation. As you've seen firsthand, supervisors only have to provide half-ass documentation to support their version, you have to do twice the documentation to justify yours. When I was fired from the hospital in GA, the only thing the Administrator had to write on my termination slip was "Conduct unbecoming a manager". I demanded a copy of my personnel file upon termination. The ONLY complaint listed on ANY evaluation was "Have received some complaints about job he does", but it never listed ANY specific details. It was all very generic. And since I STILL got a raise with each evaluation, I could have gone to the labor board and said "Obviously any complaints received were very minor since my supervisor still felt I deserved a raise". Bottom line, though, is that supervisors always have the upper hand.

One final note - sometimes you just to stand up to a boss or supervisor that's being an a$$ all the time. Once you told your supervisor you were quitting, her tone seemed to change. Sometimes a supervisor just needs to know you aren't gonna take crap off them just because they're having a bad day. While supervisors have the advantage, if employees lodge enough complaints and have documentation to back themselves, the supervisor can be the one on the hot seat.

While thinking of another job, make sure you include the cost of moving when deciding if you could make it on your own. If you have to hire professional movers to help you relocate, that can run into some very serious money in a hurry.

[Morgeruat]

Sorry to hear about this Larry, I hope things are working out for you and yours. *hugs*

[Larry_OHF]

Funny thing you should post today and bring this to within my attention. The newest development is that I have stuck it out...and now she will be resigning her position to move to another branch in two weeks. I am expecting the stress of the work to decrease with this change. Her requirements were what I consider beyond reason.

[Morgeruat]

Originally Posted by Larry_OHF Funny thing you should post today and bring this to within my attention. The newest development is that I have stuck it out...and now she will be resigning her position to move to another branch in two weeks. I am expecting the stress of the work to decrease with this change. Her requirements were what I consider beyond reason.

Great to hear Larry, I recently had some major stress at work as well, and it certainly made my life miserable for a while.