about a slap

[the new JR Jansen]

Well yesterday i went out to go set up a big tent for a party that my former workplace (a youthclub if that's actually a word) was holding over the week-end. I wouldn't be able to attend because i had other things to do but i told them i would come over and help set the bugger up anyway. So i came in and put my stuff (cigarettes and so) in the bar. We went out and were hard at work when one of my friends came from inside and said that a couple of guys were destroying my stuff. So i went in, already a but po'ed. I took back my stuff and told them (didn't yell) to not do that again (only in other words). One of those guys stood up and came to me and basically laughed in my face. So i slapped him, open hand to his face. Afterwards he came looking for another fight and then the other people outside intervenned. Anyway later on i went back inside and the girl that was behind the bar said to me that the guy actually didn't know why i slapped him in the face. To him i attacked him for no reason and he hadn't done anything wrong.

What do you people think. Was my reaction over the top or not ? And why aren't parents giving their kids a proper education anymore ? Oh, btw, the guy was about 20, i'm 28.

[Faceman]

Answer: Your reaction was understandable but wrong.
To be the first to use violence in an argument is a sign of powerlessness.
I agree that his parents may have missed out on education on him but it is neither in your responsibility nor in your power to correct that on one occasion.

Why aren't parents giving their kids education anymore / Why are kids so badly educated?

These are some problems I face every day as my part-time job (I'm still a student) is to tutor high-school and junior-high kids in groups of up to six children.
I face children which are not paying attention disturbing the lessons and make fun of me. They won't respond to reason and if you yell at them (and I'm not talking temper outburst but controlled yelling to interrupt the situation and re-establish silence) they will laugh you in the face. This is especially irritating as I'm not the person to laugh at when I shout (I'm 190cms and 125kg with a voice louder than a gunshot). I even had 14-year olds seriously challenging me to a fight!
The only way I have to counter that is to make fun of them and/or ignore them and believe me it works. If you want to get along with an annoying kid today you have to act like a kid yourself on the outside but do it controlled and in a planned way as this is the advantage you have as the *wiser* adult. That way you CAN (and I'm not talking liberal psycho-babble) win them or at least their colleagues with their own logic and make them see things they did not up until now because they were overestimating themselves and never had any reasonable opposition.

To the education issue:
Basically parents do not spend enough time with their children mostly for career reason and then try to make it up to them by increasing their pocket money. Money is power though and the dangerous combination is that this way kids get more power and less education which is horrible as power and responsibility should go hand in hand with each other.
Also the "peace revolution" in the sixties aborted authority in education which is devastating as if you want to educate somebody at a lower age you have to be in a position where he/she accepts that you are the wiser one. Kids CAN go and learn everything by themselves through trial and error or just thinking it over seriously but it's a very hard way and some people are still not finished learning social behaviour in their 50ies.
Back to the violence issue. I do NOT approve of violence as an educational instrument. I was raised without a single slap and grew up to be a nice (some people think too nice) person I think.
When violence is used - if at all - however it is imperative that it is NOT a sudden reaction in a moment of anger but a controlled punishment. My brother always used to say: "If a father hits his child it is important that it hurts him equally psychically as it hurts the kid physically. The kid HAS TO know that his father hits him because he loves him."
You cannot educate a child without punishing him/her from time to time but you CAN think up sensible punishments like household work or even a nice "educational" talk (which can even be fun) during their favourite TV show.
I used to "punish" my nephew by giving him long speeches about "why he shouldn't have done that" and "how it effect him and his surroundings". Effect: He was bored (=punished) and listened only half the time but he got hold of something I said and grew in mind too.

So basically I want to say:
I know kids (even if they're already 21 like me ) can be a pest. If you're not educationally responsible for them just ignore them but take a (non-violent but strong) stand if they're harming you. If you are in any way responsible for their education remember that they CAN change if you act correctly and that this is one of the most wondrous things anyone can achieve.

[ 06-20-2003, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[the new JR Jansen]

Normally i would agree with you. I'm not a person who goes around slapping other people.

In my defence may i say that first off all it wasn't really an 'argument'. Somebody cought him destroying my stuff and afterwards he laughed in my face. It's more an issue of respect. You don't destroy other people's property. So he showed no respect towards my things, then he showed no respect towards me and, following out of the other two, he showed no respect towards the work i had done.

[Chewbacca]

I'm a pacifist, but I can't blame ya. Sounds like the guy deserved a spanking. You could have punched the guy, but instead you left your palm flat. So instead of a slap on the wrist, he got a slap in the face. No real physical harm done.

I would be wary of retaliation though, you have humiliated this guy. He might get some buddies and try to jump you in an alley or something, or even try to sue you. I'd keep an eye looking back for a while if I were you.

[johnny]

If the guy is 20 years old, he knows perfectly well not to destroy other people's stuff. So you did well. In fact, i think you should go back, and slap him some more.

[ 06-20-2003, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: johnny ]

[the new JR Jansen]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I would be wary of retaliation though, you have humiliated this guy. He might get some buddies and try to jump you in an alley or something, or even try to sue you. I'd keep an eye looking back for a while if I were you.

Luckely that's not how things work around here. Firstly i'm not without friends myself. Secondly, the guy in charge of that club took the other guy aside and had a little talk with him. I don't know what he said to him but afterwards he came to me and asked 'Is it over now'. I said yes and then he said 'It's the same from the other side'. Youthclubs are strange to that effect. Those that visit there, even if you don't know each other, and have a problem with each other, settle it there and then. No vendettas or grudges are kept.

[Animal]

Giving a guy a couple of shots is one thing, but b**ch slapping him was definately the wrong thing to do.

Now, I wasn't there so I can't say one way or the other whether or not you were justified in physical force, just your choice of methods could've been better.

Humiliating a guy be slapping him in that face like that is gonna cause some serious trouble.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Animal: Giving a guy a couple of shots is one thing, but b**ch slapping him was definately the wrong thing to do. Now, I wasn't there so I can't say one way or the other whether or not you were justified in physical force, just your choice of methods could've been better. Humiliating a guy be slapping him in that face like that is gonna cause some serious trouble.

Watching people destroy stuff that belongs to you, and do nothing, can cause trouble as well. Now which path too choose ?

[Avatar]

No maybe you should have told your Mommy?

I would have punched him right between the eyes for wrecking your stuff. Not because he laughed at you.
Then if he did it again, step on his knee.

[Zero Alpha]

Originally posted by Avatar: No maybe you should have told your Mommy? I would have punched him right between the eyes for wrecking your stuff. Not because he laughed at you. Then if he did it again, step on his knee.

Yeah and why not kill him while we're about it
violance isnt normaly the answer. i dont really know the situation because i wasnt there, but one spite filled muderous glance usaly does the trick for me.
i spose at least a slap is restrained damage, you could have kicked the stuffing out of him.