Just my $0.02...

[Neb]

If people start a thread on, or post about, something that offends you..... Don't bitch about it, just ignore it. And don't go running to the mods to whine either. It just annoys those who AREN'T offended by it and would like to discuss the subject.

Her sig wasn't bad at all, there are just a few people who need to calm down. A lot. Take the world a bit easier. If someone's sig offends your sensibilities, ignore it, it's not the end of the world.

As for the PM's/emails that she got that's just a dumb thing to do. If you want someone on IW to change their sig, email or PM the MODS about it. Then if they think that a change is necessary they'll tell the person.

I must say that I personally have no problem with -Vixen saying her opinion on people, there are some people that ARE assholes. Even on IW. And it's understandable that she felt pissed when people were attacking her and the mods didn't do a thing. Memnoch even reprimanded her when she left.

Thanks for scaring her away, those who helped to do that, we sure won't see that awful sicko woman again.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Madman-Rogovich: yeah but did she get vicious pms? she could work with images she could have easily made them

Well, she had a screenshot of one of the PMs in this closed thread. I did a quick check and the member does exist. I highly doubt she would go through all the trouble to modify a picture. Believe me, that thought did cross my mind, but when I pondered upon it, it seemed way too far-fetched.

Remember... do not push aside somebody just because you do not believe him/her. They might just be telling the truth, which would have meant you just contributed to his/her angst, and added bad karma to yourself( metaphorically speaking).

~~ADD]

Originally posted by Madman-Rogovich: i agree completely but i hold everyone in IW with very high regards so when she badmouths them im slow to back her up

That is being biase. I hold the IW regulars in high regard too, but I do not deem them unfalterable. That would be naive of me. I try to see what happened first before deciding on a course of action. I do not, and will not blindly take sides.

[ 07-16-2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Sazerac]

Sorry to say, but ~vixen has been trouble since day 1. She comes in here, pushes people around, starts a near-pornographic topic cafe in General Discussions, lashes out against those who have a problem with it, and then storms off after it's locked.

We give her a second chance.

She comes back in, starts tirading at everyone about what a few people (who are by NO means off the hook, mind you!) have done, insults the mods, insults Ziroc, uses flaming and abusive language, and storms off again.

Burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on me.

She won't get a second chance.

However...and this is a BIG however...I am sorely disappointed at everyone who felt the need to PM her and agitate her further. That is NOT the way we do things here at IW. I doubt we'll ever know who all participated in that, although, thanks to her "proof" post, we at least know one person who did.

I've been noticing a lot of subtle nastiness creeping into threads lately. I don't know whether it's because it's summer and everyone's bored, or if it's just due to the fact that we have a small cadre of rude, disrespectful people on board, but it's going to stop. NOW. If you're that bored, go do something productive rather than hurling barbs and insults at others over a computer. How immature.

-Sazerac

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Grojlach:

Bit of a black & white view on the situation you're trying to portray here, Dundee. You forgot to mention -vixen was balancing on a thin line in her time at Ironworks by making several posts of a rather controversial nature.

Hmmmm... I am basically trying to say that both sides should take five and take a breather. If I recall correctly, vixen was the one who started her own cafe right? A very 'liberal' one as I recall. I thought of it as mischief, but yes, it was threading on thin ice.

This is irrelevant to the fact that she is receiving abuse in her PMs though. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Apart from the view of the moderators on it (whether it was out of line or not, but I think the official rulings are quite clear), I think it's not strange many people got offended by some of her posts and her old signature.

I was uncomfortable with them, but I did not feel an urge to flame her because of them. Even worse, there are cowards out there who were too afraid to confront her in public, and abused the PM system to pick on her. These people are despicable, no matter who the victim is.

The way she responded to people who showed their concern about the questionable nature of her posts absolutely lacked a lot of tact and respect just the same... Pot vs. Kettle, anyone?
Aye, that was somewhat what I was trying to say. Both parties need to cool down.

And, in the end, she was actually just baiting for more criticism by starting to post about some of her "sexually oriented dreams" and by responding to all criticism quite fiercely, with a misplaced bit of drama.

Baits can be ignored or countered with appropriate sarcasm( not scorn, BIG difference), drama can be dismissed with a roll of an eye. I have encountered 'Diva Queens' of the forums before, but as I am trying to say, an offence committed against her is still an offence, even if her track record is not exactly spotless.

I'm not taking sides in this matter - I couldn't care less - , I just think it's better to see things in perspective, as I have my doubts if everyone seeing this thread will really understand what this is all about.

Well... I am just hoping everything will be settled amicably. [img]smile.gif[/img]

~~EDIT] For better paragraph formatting.

[ 07-16-2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Ladyzekke]

Originally posted by Sazerac: However...and this is a BIG however...I am sorely disappointed at everyone who felt the need to PM her and agitate her further. That is NOT the way we do things here at IW. I doubt we'll ever know who all participated in that, although, thanks to her "proof" post, we at least know one person who did.

I have to wonder how many of these PMs and e-mails she allegedly received. With her attitude, I would have thought she would have posted the lot of them, just to show everyone and make her point. Why just post one PM? Maybe that is all there was eh?

I say this because I don't want a bunch of people thinking "oh I bet Ladyzekke PMed her too". Saying "I've gotten a ton of e-mails and PMs cursing at me" leaves a lot of speculation and suspicion open in peoples minds. Maybe that was her intention, I cannot say. All I know is I saw ONE PM that she posted here that she received from Tone, that's it. Hard for me to believe if there were more she would keep them to herself. But again, I could be wrong.

[Azred]

Couldn't people see that all vixen wanted was to agitate others? From the first post of vixen's I saw I could see that this was a person who wanted attention. Ignore them; they aren't worth wasting your time.

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by ladyzekke: I have to wonder how many of these PMs and e-mails she allegedly received. With her attitude, I would have thought she would have posted the lot of them, just to show everyone and make her point. Why just post one PM? Maybe that is all there was eh? I say this because I don't want a bunch of people thinking "oh I bet Ladyzekke PMed her too". Saying "I've gotten a ton of e-mails and PMs cursing at me" leaves a lot of speculation and suspicion open in peoples minds. Maybe that was her intention, I cannot say. All I know is I saw ONE PM that she posted here that she received from Tone, that's it. Hard for me to believe if there were more she would keep them to herself. But again, I could be wrong.

The one from Tone seems to have been fabricated as well.

-Sazerac

[andrewas]

Originally posted by Sazerac: The one from Tone seems to have been fabricated as well. -Sazerac

Cant Ziroc access PMs? Or even just check if they were actualy sent? It would seem to be preferable to guessing about it.

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Wow.. this wasn't what I was expecting to see after finally being able to get back on a comp after about a week.
To me it looks like there has been a lack of tolerance on both sides involved.
First, yes, -vixen might have had a sig etc. not considered quite appropriate, but just because it offends' some people's sensibilities, I don't think they took the best course of action, they could have asked in a post, or Pm'd and gently reminded her that there are minors here, and some concerned parents wouldn't like to see their children seeing that type of thing, (although I still would advocate the approach of just ignoring it if it offends you.)
I think the direct approach perpetrated by some was what lead to the defensiveness, I imagine -vixen was baffled, and perhaps couldn't see what the upset was, so you can see why she would feel she was being attacked for no reason.
However, I think she also reacted in the wrong way, she could have PM'd a mod, and realised that an outsider to the situation, such as a mod, wouldn't see it the same way, so she shouldn't have been so defensive in that respect either.
Also, she should not have attacked which mod it was who was doubtful of her evidence. (can't remember which it was now, might have been Z )
I think that her banning was only due to a culmination of events, if circumstances had been different I think it wouldn't have escalated so far, I didn't know her too well, but some have been attesting to her good, if a little rambunctious, character.

One thing though, I think that although she may have had pm's, that one we now know was edited, or are at least find it very likely, even if that evidence hadn't been found by Megabot, the writing style is different to Tone's.
Not to say Tone is not a good english speaker, far from it, but it is not in the same style.

I hope not to sound too mini-mod or sanctimonious with this post, but just posting my ridiculously long 2 cents. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

It amazes me how much trouble was stirred up by 1 newbie on the forum.

Although I never had a problem with Vixen's sigs, I did have a BIG problem with her attitude.....and I'm not talking about her response to all those PM's she supposedly recieved - I'm talking about her strip bar coffee house thread.

First of all, for a newbie to create a thread that "challenges" an established member (not to mention Moderator) is just rude and in very poor taste. I felt that it was a slap in the face to Cloudy and that Vixen was trying to establish a "rep" at her expense.

Then, when people complained about content of her coffee house, she basically told them to f*** off. NOT the kind of attitude that will generate a lot of friends. When a member suggested her content wasn't suitable for some of the younger members, she said her thread wasn't designed for kids and they should stay out.

Then, she creates a poll that OPENLY challenges Cloudy's Cafe'. Again, this shows very poor etiquette.

When her threads get locked, she storms off - only to return a couple of weeks later and INSTANTLY start flaming people again!

While some people may have objected to her Coffee House, I SERIOUSLY doubt they PM'd her and called her the names she says she was called.

So she offers Tone's PM as "proof" of the abuse she has received.

EXCUSE ME! But did ANYBODY else notice that Tone's grasp of the English language (and it's slang) suddenly improved DRAMATICALLY in that PM??? If she could type English that good, then why doesn't she do it in her public posts?

I DO agree that if ANY members did PM her with those comments, they should be suspended themselves. That is NOT the way we treat newbies - or any other member for that matter - even extremely rude ones.

But I have to agree with Sazerac. It was obvious from Day 1 that Vixen's main goal was to cause trouble on the forum. She was given MORE than one chance, and she never even tried to change her behavior. She even went so far as to insult Ziroc personally!

I'm sorry, Dundee, but Vixen had more than her fair share of chances.

Whatever decision the Mods make, she will have nobody to blame but herself for what happened.

[ 07-16-2002, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Cerek the Barbaric ]