Vampires..

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Sonic: Correct me if im wrong BUT isnt the *Dayster*in the chest NOT on the lich,the lich only got some wands but behind him you find a chest and there you will find *Dayster*So no pickpocket needed.And the lich is veary easy : He does protection spells and then time stops,When he does time stop run upp and rest(Hes doing a spell so he wont follow you)And after you rested go down agin he will do some new protection spells and when he starts on a new time stop run up to the inn keeper and rest agin (The lich wont follow if he is doing a spell)AND now fix protection spells and go down,now he is *Clean*And easy to hit so he maybi does a protection from magic weapons but then do spells on him(IF your not playing a solo fighter,Paladin,Ranger,thief,barbarian,monk or any other *non spell casting*Class.This is the tactic im doing on liches..On vampires it NPP And/Or Amulet of power+a good unded weapon : The unded mace +1 or imporved+2,Dayster,And the trowing axe (Cant remember its name) you find it in cc.And another tactic is *turn unded* but you might not be that level that is required to destroy an unded whit *Turn unded*.This is all i got at this moment but if i find any more (And BETTER tactics)I come here and say ..Good luck Sonic.

Thx for the correction (I edited my post). I meant to say "lockpicking" of course.
And of course this Lich (and many others) is easy to beat with the change-area cheese. You don't even have to rest. Just move in and out (preferably with one party member only, leave the others outside the inn). Thus his spells won't hit you and eventually he will run out of offensive spells and is pretty easy prey.
The lockpick-and-run tactic however also works non-cheese and this is what I try to encourage in people who play the game for the first or second time

[Feral]

Without:
1. run-in, run-out, rinse, repeat; or
2. run in, grab sword, fry lich with it,
a chapter 2 (or early 3) party is likely to have a lot of trouble with the lich. He's in a very small room and your merry adventurers likely can't take a combination of time stop/meteor/wail, etc. with nowhere to hide. Come to think of it, if you take him on early in the game (first time through), he's right up there in terms of toughness.

[Raistlin Majere]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by Raistlin Majere: quote: Originally posted by Faceman: I didn't mention MoD because he obviously has a low-level party and seems to be still in Chapter 2. Mirror Image might not fully protect you, but if you're mirrored you got a good chance not YOU get hit, but just an image and the vampires level drain goes wasted. If you got 4 mirrors for example your chance to get hit is narrowed down by 80%, which is pretty decent.

actually, it doesnt work like that. even if the vamp hits the image, your mage gets level drained. it may have been intended to work like you mentioned, but it doesnt. sucks, dont it? [/QUOTE]Sorry to contradict, but Faceman is right. As long as at least one Image is active, there is only a 1 in (# of Images + 1) chance that the real you will get hit, even against things like Level Drain--heck, even against things like Cloudkill. ("Of course I can breathe this toxic gas! I'm protected by an Illusin spell!") [/QUOTE]I must say that it is like I said in the first place. I even tested it. Put on stoneskin+mirror image, CLUA in a vamp and watch as your levels get drained. Either the vamp was really accurate, or then theres something weird in either my game or yours(which i find unlikely, since im patched-to-the-max, as i believe you are too...), and then theres that slim chance that im right for once... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-12-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Raistlin Majere ]

[Faceman]

Just tested it and you ARE correct. Neither Mirror Image nor Stoneskin stop level draining. It can be noticed easily as your mage gets level drained but not hurt.
It is however completely illogical and therefore a bug.
I did a quick search and it is listed on Baldurdash's buglist, but not fixed:

--------------------------------- Description/Details Weapon and creature special abilities (ie Level Drain, Slow, 'Bleeder', Poison, Electrical, Stun) work even when Weapon Ineffective or attack is absorbed by magical protection(s) ie Stoneskin. --------------------------------- Suspected Cause Programming; may be by design. --------------------------------- Solution (if known) Use magical protection from the "special ability" ie Negative Plane Protection spell or Improved Mace Of Disruption/Amulet Of Power items against Level Drain, Haste against Slow, etc. ---------------------------------

[ 11-12-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Faceman: Just tested it and you ARE correct. Neither Mirror Image nor Stoneskin stop level draining. It can be noticed easily as your mage gets level drained but not hurt.

I never said that Stoneskin would block Level Drain, nor would I: Stoneskin only blocks physical damage, nothing else. A Stoneskinned Mage is a Level-Drained Mage. And I note that the Baldurdash quote you posted mentions Stoneskin....but *not* Mirror Image.

As for Level Drain penetrating Mirror Image, though, that's news to me. I've always been safe enough using it a last-ditch measure, and it seems to work--there's always the chance that the Vampire will happen to hit the real you, but that's the chance you take.

I'd test it, but in my current games, there aren't any Vampires left....and I'm in no hurry to labor through Imp. Ilyich all over again just yet.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: quote: Originally posted by Faceman: Just tested it and you ARE correct. Neither Mirror Image nor Stoneskin stop level draining. It can be noticed easily as your mage gets level drained but not hurt.

I never said that Stoneskin would block Level Drain, nor would I: Stoneskin only blocks physical damage, nothing else. A Stoneskinned Mage is a Level-Drained Mage. And I note that the Baldurdash quote you posted mentions Stoneskin....but *not* Mirror Image.[/QUOTE]Stoneskin is just used as an example here, it also applies to other magical effects obviously. I know you corrected me once about Stoneskin (I actually believed the manual and that Stoneskin blocks Magic Missile [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] ).
However you gotta agree, that it makes no sense. Maybe for Level Drain as we don't know how it is applied, but for bleeding or poisoning from certain weapons. How can a Sword make you bleed without hurting you? Internal bleeding, I get it, but what about an initial loss of HP then? Internal bleeding without internal wounds? And how can you make someone bleed you never actually hit (Mirror Image)?

As for Level Drain penetrating Mirror Image, though, that's news to me. I've always been safe enough using it a last-ditch measure, and it seems to work--there's always the chance that the Vampire will happen to hit the real you, but that's the chance you take.

That's what I also thought at first, but in my test (Imoen casting Mirror Image, then attacked by a Fledgling Vampire "VAMFLM01")

• the Vampire level drained on every hit he rolled
• the Vampite level drained on a hit when one of the images disappeared afterwards
• the Vampire level drained without applying any physical damage (i.e. HP loss)

I'd test it, but in my current games, there aren't any Vampires left....and I'm in no hurry to labor through Imp. Ilyich all over again just yet.

Just spawn one then, just for testing purposes, or are you on a no-reload and don't want to spoil it?
.
I would have never thought it works that way, as it seems stupid to me, but it seems that Raistlin is right on this one.

[Captain SlackBladder]

Or, you could always use
Spoiler
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1. The Daystar sword you've just swiped : ie SUNRAY. for some reaon, undead don't like the daytime, obviously not able to get spf 1000 sun cream [img]smile.gif[/img] .
2. You dont mention your party make up - have you a berserker or paladin undead hunter or cleric in your party ? If so , use their innate abilites / spells. Very effective.
3. Any mages in your party ? Then just one word - summons. (Lots of them !!) Always helps in any battle.
4. Other than daystar , as mentioned above, there are many weapons, scrolls that will help you against liches.

MAJOR SPOILER :
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: You might want to keep the protection from undead scrolls for a side quest later on !!

[Dundee Slaytern]

Side note. It is the Barbarian's Enrage, and not the Berserker's Rage that confers Level Drain Protection.

[Sonic]

What i did mean whit my *Lich* rest tactic : Rest Cous then hes DEFENSSIV Spells goes away,i didnt mean that he did loose a offensiv spell(He does but anyway).a lich whitout any protection spells is easyer to kill than a lich whit protection spells but whitout offensiv spells.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Sonic: What i did mean whit my *Lich* rest tactic : Rest Cous then hes DEFENSSIV Spells goes away,i didnt mean that he did loose a offensiv spell(He does but anyway).a lich whitout any protection spells is easyer to kill than a lich whit protection spells but whitout offensiv spells.

Not easier, faster
The protection spells go away as well if you just wait long enough (and play the in-out game meanwhile to drain his offensive spells). After he has lost his offensive spells he can do almost no harm.
PfMW or Mantle doesn't last too long anyway and is probably gone already when you attack and stoneskins just need to be peeled off. The in-and-out cheese mainly is for low level parties who can't kill/hit/stop a lich before he unleashes Wail of Banshee/Time Stop/AdHW/Symbol Death or any other nasty spell.