Use wisdom - not force!

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Tobbin: That's probably for the best anyways. I'm foreign born so would not be able to become president. I second the vote for Skywalker as pres. Hey, that even sounds good.

No, no,no! As shown in many past discussions in the past, I am a political idiot! I have no facts...I only have feelings and ideals. That would not be enough!

Mark

[skywalker]

Originally posted by Wurm: I saw the kudos post futher up and I try to keep myself civil... BUT BS! What did the US do? Bin Laden hates the US because we were allowed into Saudi Arabia during the gulf war. What did we do when he considers us to be infidels? Why because we support Israel? What country has tried the hardest and spent the most money trying to bring peace to a people WHO HAVE BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER SINCE THE OLD TESTAMENT! I have muslim friends here in Germany and Back in the states. That wish the US would do even more to stop the hatred! So tell me WHAT DID THE US DO TO THESE B*STARDS? WHAT DID WE DO? We were born American thats what we did wrong!

We have been Breached!!!

Mark

[Tobbin]

Originally posted by 250: chances are, if you can open that door, then it can be breached

A well thought out explosive is always good for opening doors. You have to make sure to gauge the right strength, or you would risk taking out the control panels too though. That's taking it that you are on the outside needing to get in though.

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Protectorate of the OHF
Death Waits 4 U ALL

[250]

Originally posted by Tobbin: A well thought out explosive is always good for opening doors. You have to make sure to gauge the right strength, or you would risk taking out the control panels too though. That's taking it that you are on the outside needing to get in though.

nope, it doesnt even take that much tech

a phone call can do it

Originally posted by Wurm: I saw the kudos post futher up and I try to keep myself civil... BUT BS! What did the US do? Bin Laden hates the US because we were allowed into Saudi Arabia during the gulf war. What did we do when he considers us to be infidels? Why because we support Israel? What country has tried the hardest and spent the most money trying to bring peace to a people WHO HAVE BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER SINCE THE OLD TESTAMENT! I have muslim friends here in Germany and Back in the states. That wish the US would do even more to stop the hatred! So tell me WHAT DID THE US DO TO THESE B*STARDS? WHAT DID WE DO? We were born American thats what we did wrong!

What the american goverment has done wrong is to support the illegal Isreali occuption of palestine


[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Wurm]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Yassar Arafat is not a terrorist. He has a nobel peace prize i dont think they would have awarded it to some one who took part in terrorism.

What alternate universe are you from? Please do me a favor and go to one of the history sites and look Yassar Arafat up. He used to be a Terrorist or better said "Freedom Fighter" I agree with him that Israel's treatment of his people was and still is wrong, but he used to use terror as a weapon.



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[250]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: What the american goverment has done wrong is to support israels illegal occuption of palestine.

and more, but we should not get into this now

no matter how you whine about your justice, Wurm, people in mideast will not listen. you got to think like they do if you want this problem solved

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by skywalker: You are so right Alex. I've been watching the news and last night I came to the conclusion that it looks pretty bad. Think about it. If we bomb the crap out of Afganistan and kill countless Afgans we will be creating a new generation of terrorists, a new generation of hate. If you take out bin Laden, someone will take his place. We are in a very difficult and delicate position. President Bush has been given extreme power in this and I am a little scared. His rhetoric is getting stronger and the press and he are stirring us up for the Mother of All Battles. The media kept showing the plane hits and the destruction. They keep showing us the pain of the people in hospitals and the pain of those missing their loved ones. This hurts us quite a lot and causes our wounds to remain open. Yes, we need never forget, but we do not need to be continually fed the horror and sadness. This is not Desert Storm, this will be far larger and more deadly. We don't need another Korea or Vietnam. We need a level head here. This IS the end of the World as we knew it. Because of this America may be ruined for all time and the rest of the World may follow. We are ready to commit ground troops, many people good and bad (depending on where you sit) will die. I hope we can all live with the consequences of our leaders actions. If there was a way to satiate the masses by spending our money to beef up our Intelligence and protect this land, that is what I feel would be best. But I fear there are far to many who need blood shed to feel vindicated. That is sad, for there will be a veritable Sea Of Blood that will never wash away hatred and cleanse all our souls. Now, I'm not expecting everyone to agree with what I've just posted. I implore you to write something to discredit this, I hope for it. But please do it constructively, jabs and anger will not help. Mark

Skywalker, seldom I have agreed so completely with both the sentiments and the ideas expressed by someone else here as in this case. The only part where I am somewhat more optimistic than you about the longterm repercussions of this atrocity on the USA/the western countries as societies. I still hope that they are stable enough and that values like openess, tolerance and civil linerties are rooted deeply enough to not let that happen. But I share your apprehension that all of this might result in an even deeper rift and an even worsened atmosphere of distrust and misunderstandings/ignorance between "the West" and "the islamic world" (or even all or most developing countries).

Memnoch is of course correct in pointing out that Saddam Hussein as a major credibilty problem when he tells US leaders to show respect for human life everywhere on this planet as he himself has shown nothing but utter disrespect for that value himself constantly over the past decades !

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[John D Harris]

Wisdom and Force are not mututaly exclusive. What good is security if the security does not use force to stop the acts? The FACT that there has not been a strike yet, shows wisdom, there has been no indiscrimanant (SP?) bombing on the part of the USA. Let the lining up of diplomatic arangements have their chance, they may yet bare fruit with out the bombs. If the diplomatic does not work, make no mistake force will have to be used. The time and place for force will be decided by the people that are in charge, if they decide to use force at ALL.

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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[250]

Originally posted by Wurm: What alternate universe are you from? Please do me a favor and go to one of the history sites and look Yassar Arafat up. He used to be a Terrorist or better said "Freedom Fighter" I agree with him that Israel's treatment of his people was and still is wrong, but he used to use terror as a weapon.

I think his people call him

the Patriot