Character advice for the new

[Gammit]

After recently finishing the game, I came up with the idea that having a "good party" can be at least a little objective in regards to ease of play. So, if there are any who are about to begin the game, or who may find the game a little difficult, my recommendation for a 6-person party is

1 fighter
1 paladin (or ranger)
1 druid (or cleric)
1 fighter/thief (a standard thief may be a little weak for awhile)
1 mage
1 bard

This gives you a couple tanks (so very much needed in this game), a healer, a thief, a magic user, and a morale-booster. It seems that bards, paladins, and druids are quite good for this game, whereas mages aren't too powerful (contrary to BG1 & 2). It also seems that the paladin and the druid are a little more powerful than the ranger and the cleric.

Weapon Spoiler Below!
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There is a +7 sword only usable by paladins in the game.

[NobleNick]

Nice list, Gammit!

You are right, party composition is not totally subjective: there are things you can do to improve (or torpedo) the overall ease with which you progress through the game. One of the things you can do to maximize your success is to make sure a wide variety of skills and abilites are represented.

I have a couple suggestions to buff up your suggested party a bit.

I would start the mage out as a fighter, and dual over at level 3, or (if you can hold out) level 7 or higher. This will get more hp, attacks per round, and weapon proficiency for this guy. Even dualing over from fighter level 3 should be a big boon: keeps your mage from dying when a monster looks at him cross-eyed.

Ditto for the druid or cleric: dual over from fighter to pack more hp onto him. (Oh, I agree with your analysis: the druid wins out, if HoW is installed.) The fighter/druid dual class is hard to roll (need 89+ ability points, spread just right); but IMHO is worth the effort. See threads in this forum on how to do it.

And, again, I agree with your analysis; this time regarding paladin and ranger: The paladin, to me, seems to be a more robust character, and best suited of all the straight classes to be a tank. The only tiff I have is that you can't dual class him; so he will always be "average" in the hitpoint department. I might be inclined to go with a ranger over paladin, if he were dual classed from a level 9 cleric to give him more hitpoints and spell capabilities

Since your party will start out with so many fighters waiting to dual over, you can start your main fighter out as a cleric or a mage, to get more hp and to get spells to augment mage power or to help mitigate the need for a full cleric. (Having a party with a bard, paladin, and fighter or ranger with cleric skills, makes the druid/cleric decision, above, even easier to make: Go druid!)

I assume your fighter/thief is multi-class. I did a gnome thief/illusionist multiclass. I have often longed for the extra hitpoints that a fighter/thief would provide, and am testing out a fighter/thief dual class. However, I am not sure that I am ready to trade in the wealth of spell power my mage half has in order to get the extra hp and fighter skills. I think either choice is valid, depending on your playing style.

The bard is a great addition *IF* you have HoW installed and you are willing to buy her a few good pieces of bard stuff.

Party On!

[Peytin of Rothmire]

Sounds like a well-rounded party. In fact very similiar to the one I'm playing now in HOW. I tried a thief/fighter also, but she didn't last too long. In the beginning I thought she was great, especially the boost to HP but by Lower Dorn's she wasn't a big deal anymore. I've found the mage/thief to be a better combo, especially in HOW. My other mage is a fighter/mage which I like alot!! Great HP and an extra slot in bows, not to mention the ability to use long swords instead of daggers.(She carries a hammer should she need one too.) She's gone toe-to-toe with several enemies that I never would have put a mage against in melee combat and came through with flying colors. Maybe I'll try a fighter that duals to thief and get some extra slots in bows and long swords.
As far as my paladin, he doing pretty well in the HP category, with 153 at level 13, just 9 shy of my dwarf fighter with 19 cons, also at level 13.
I tend to have several parties at one time in various stages of the game, so I'll mix exp characters with newbies or run a mid-level character through a few areas just for exp. I never used a bard before starting HOW. I played the just the expansion option and brought in five of my favs then added the Morgana bard. Now I'm ready to start one from scratch, along with my first druid considering how much I've heard about them on the board.

[Gammit]

Cool Halloween smiley, eh? Thanks for the pat on the back, you two. I forgot to mention that it is indeed HOW that makes druids and bards so incredibly worthwhile. To answer a question, yes, my fighter/thief is a multiclassed halfling (never played a halfling before). I never thought of dual-classing a fighter to a mage to have more hp. Cool idea! Although, there WOULD be a lack of magic in the early to middle of the game (and I needed it then). Maybe I'll try that sometime in the future.

[ 10-29-2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Gammit ]

[True_Moose]

My only suggestion would be to get a conjurer...+1 spell per level with little to few drawbacks (I don't know how many divination spells there are after lvl 3 but I never use em'.)

[the new JR Jansen]

Originally posted by True_Moose: My only suggestion would be to get a conjurer...+1 spell per level with little to few drawbacks (I don't know how many divination spells there are after lvl 3 but I never use em'.)

Didn't they give the conjurer another opposing school in HoW ?

Anyway i can also recommand the fighter/druid multi. It's a bit easier to roll for this character then when you are going for a dual class. And when i want to do it, i always forget the allignement restriction for a fighter/druid dual.

[NobleNick]

Gammit,

Yeah. Even if you can only afford to go to fighter level 3 before dualing over, the extra 42 hp, 5 extra weapon proficiency points (and the ability to stack them!) and extra ApR are worth it. Your "new" mage should be a grinning fool!

Heh, heh, heh. No matter how much magic you get, more is better. However, if you have the bard and choose the thief/illusionist (or even just pick one of them) you should have no dire lack of magic in the early game.

Peytin! You have shown your true colors.... and they look like mine! I'll have to keep your bent for mixing it up in the back of my brain. I like doing the parallel party thing, too, and mixing and matching, getting more expo in still another game, etc.

True_Moose and Jansen, Agreed: Specialist mage is *THE* way to go (who would throw away all those extra spell slots?); and Conjuror is IMHO one of the better choices to make. I also like Illusionist and Invoker. My put is to have at least two specialties represented in the party, aligned so that EVERY school is covered: scads of spell slots and nothing is taboo! I intend to have THREE specialties represented in one of my parties:

mc gnome Thief/Illusionist
Fighter/Conjuror (dual over at fighter 12 to 13)
Fighter/Invoker (dual over at fighter 12 to 13)

Party On!
edited because Jansen slipped in a post whilst I was writing mine!

[ 10-29-2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by True_Moose: My only suggestion would be to get a conjurer...+1 spell per level with little to few drawbacks (I don't know how many divination spells there are after lvl 3 but I never use em'.)

This ain't BG2, True Moose. I say to heck with the Conjurer and go for a General Mage.

With HoW installed, the Conjurer has INVOCATION as its' opposition school.

That means no Magic Missile, Shield, Mordenkainen's Force Missiles, Web, Snilloc's Snowball Swarm, Fireball, etc... ...

Offensively, a Conjurer is robbed of a lot of direct-damage spells.
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The Abjurer has Alteration and Illusion as opposition schools.

This means no Stoneskins, Mirror Image, Vocalise, Haste, Slow, etc... ...
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The Diviner has Conjuration/Summoning as its' opposition school.

This means no Melf's Acid Arrow, Flame Arrow, almost none of the summoning spells..., etc... ...
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The Enchanter has Invocation as its' opposition school. Why they made the Enchanter the same as a Conjurer, I have no idea.
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The Illusionist has Necromancy and Abjuration as its opposition schools.

This one is actually bearable. You lose about half your defensive spells, so you have to be extra, extra careful. No Skull Trap and Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting either.
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The Invoker has Divination and C/S as its' opposition schools.

What can I say? When an Invoker is weaker than the Diviner... ...
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The Necromancer has Illusion and Enchantment/Charm as its' opposition schools.

Offensively, it rocks, but defensively, it leaves a lot to be desired. Not mention I will not get Greater Malison! ARRGGGHHHH!!!! Or any of the Emotion spells for that matter... ...
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The Transmuter has Necromancy and Abjuration as its' opposition schools.

Talk about slapping him in the face. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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A General Mage gets 7 spell slots for spell level 1-6, 6 spell slots for spell level 7-8 and 4 spell slots for spell level 9.

Factor in various equipment, and your GMage actually has more than enough spell slots to rock the house. I mean come on... what is the difference between 18 Magic Missile and 16 Magic Missile spell slots? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

A General Mage can have everything, so I recommend a GMage over any of the SMages anyday. In IWD:HoW that is.

[ 10-29-2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

[Ar-Cunin]

if reply to the mage listing

get 2 dual-class mages

one thief to illusionist (needs DEX 16)
and
one fighter to necromancer (needs WIS 15)

all spells have been covered and you can get the high lvl spells

[Peytin of Rothmire]

EXPOSED by NobleNick!!!!

Gammit, I didn't mean to mislead. My fighter/illusionist is a multi-class. She was a fighter and illusionist right from the beginning. You'll only get two prof points in any weapon doing it this way, but that's one more than a mage or mage/thief combo would get, plus you can get them in any weapon. As an afterthought, I probably should have dualled a fighter at level 3 or maybe 7 but I didn't. Oh well. As Dundee says, I don't find the restrictions for the illusionist specialist all that problematic. As far as my own defense, I have stoneskin, blur, and mirror when needed so I never have had a problem. All the emotion/courage spells are there too. If you have any other general mage or combo, they can always learn the spells your specialist can't.