Newbie Questions

[Dundee Slaytern]

Erm... actually, it is IMHO that the Druid + Cleric combination is one of the most potent ones that a party can have.

Remember, they don't just heal.

Of course, it is still playable without a Druid. [img]smile.gif[/img] More so since you are playing on what I assume to be Core Difficulty.

[Dancing Virginia]

How do you figure it is core difficulty? Is it the combination of classes? Or are you assuming that I have the play level set at a certain difficulty...that would be a negative...I'm playing it easy.

Wow it is easy to get addicted to these message boards.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Judging from your posts, I deduced that you were not playing on Hard, Insane or HoF. Call it an educated guess.

Most players who are not yet comfortable with the game, tend to play on what is the default difficulty, which is Core.

On a personal level, I do not differiate between Easy, Normal and Core, since at the heart of all my advice, I always assume a base minimum of Core Difficulty, so whatever I advise on, will work on Normal and Easy as well.

[NobleNick]

Dancing Virginia, All my comments are for HoW installed, unless said otherwise....

Hmmm...I haven't found any useful flails either.

There is exactly one that I can think of in IWD proper: An excellent flail becomes available in the mid-game. (If you want to know where, say so and I'll spoil for you.) Here are the stats:

Misery's Herald (Flail)
Damage: 1D6 +4, +5 vs. Elves
THAC0: +3, +4 vs. Elves
Damage type: Crushing
Special: Causes Horror on 10% of all hits, Cold Iron
Not Usable By: Druid; Mage; Thief

Okay, well then, I think I'll keep the bard since people say I'll need it for HoW, but I'll ditch the druid.

Just a clarification: I suggest the Bard **ONLY** if you have HoW installed, otherwise I do not suggest one at all. This is because HoW gives the Bard "War Chant of the Sith." A Bard ROCKS with this song; but is so-so, at best, without it. Also, IIRC, it is HoW that makes the Bardic Horn of Valhalla available, pushing an excellent character over the top! In addition to the HoW requirement, I strongly suggest a Bard only if you have a very physical party before adding the Bard, otherwise I only mildy suggest one.

I disagree with the comment of a Druid being superfluous if you have a Cleric. With HoW installed, a Druid becomes quite viable and fun (though not essential) character. Of course I would always go DC Fighter/Druid over Druid.

My party should round out like this:

Paladin
Fighter
Fighter/Thief
Cleric
Bard
Mage (Illusionist)

I haven't decided whether I'll make the Cleric a Fighter/Cleric or not at this point.

Before I say anything else, let me say that the party you are currently playing, AND (assuming HoW is installed) the party you list above, are both viable parties for completing IWD. That said, I have 2 sets of suggestions: One set for if you are simply going to install HoW and TotLM (The free TotLM download patches HoW) to make IWD more delightful (i.e., play an IWD-only game with HoW installed); and one set of suggestions for if you intend for your party to actually complete the expansion areas provided by HoW/TotLM.

IWD-only suggestions:

Paladin: Excellent choice to complement your Fighters! This guy starts out so-so, but gets MUCH better as the game goes on. His high saving throws allow him to hack away at enemy spell casters when your Fighters have dropped their weapons and are drooling on their armor. Stack points in longsword (or you'll be sorry!) and bows.

Fighter: Another stalwart choice. Dwarf might be a good race, and max out STR, DEX and CON to get the most out of him.

Fighter/Thief: I presumed you are doing MC F/T. This is certainly a much better choice than straight Thief. If you can do without a Thief for a while, you might want to consider a DC Fighter[3]/Thief, since you can stack PP 3 high in bow and 2 high in a melee weapon, or vice versa, whereas an MC F/T can't go beyond 2 PP in anything. A Fighter[6]/Thief gets you even more HP and allows you to stack 4 PP in melee and 2 in bow, or max out bow with a 3-3 split of the 6 PP your Fighter gets before the DC. Of course, getting to Fighter[6] without a Thief could be painful.

Cleric: O.K, now I am going to climb solidly onto my DC bandwagon and strongly endorse your leanings towards a Figher/Cleric, in the form of a DC Fighter/Cleric. If there is anything I like better than using the Bard, it is DCing characters with Fighter; because you get so much for so little investment. A Cleric is not an essential character in the early game; but a Fighter comes in very handy throughout. So, if you make this character a DC Fighter[X]/Cleric, where X = 3, 6, or even 7, you will gain a lot, while experiencing very little pain during the early game (the early game might even go easier with the extra Fighter instead of Cleric). At Fighter 3 and 6 you gain extra Proficiency Points (PPs) which you can stack! At Fighter[6] you could have 4 PP in mace and 2 in sling. (How high can a Cleric stack? 1 high? A miserable 2 at the very most. I honestly don't know: I don't do SC Clerics!!) At Fighter[7] you get an extra 1/2 ApR for all weapons, in addition to the extra ApR from your stacked PP in mace. The extra HP your Fighter gets is immediately usable by your fledgling Cleric. He can stick his starting PP into flail and use Misery's Herald, which should become available about then; and when he gets to Cleric[8] (this will happen sooner than you think) all the stacked PP in sling and mace, and the extra ApRs, are usable. Also, this build puts an extra Fighter in the party, making your Bard's War Chant all the more effective.

Bard: Again, an excellent choice, made more excellent by stuffing beefy characters into your party. Your Bard will complement your Illusionist very well, too, covering the Necro spells that the Illusionist can't learn. Do NOT let your Bard[11+] do anything except SING (War Chant 99% of the time), and cast an occasional spell. Do NOT waste money buying her anything, except possibly the Lyre of Progression and definitely the VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED Bardic Horn of Valhalla (available in Kuldahar). Do not let her even touch the excellent weapons you will find for her: Her party's strength is in her song. I would suggest H-elf, since Raise Dead does not work on Elves, and you don't need another Human in the party.

Illusionist: Back on the DC bandwagon --> For a mere pittance of expo, and by restricting the race to Human, you can have a Fighter[3]/Illusionist with a starter bolus of 30+ HP, 2 stars in dagger, or whatever (versus 1 PP); the ability to wear armor when you want **AND** (drum roll, please...) 3PP in LONG bow!!!! (versus 1 PP in missile weapons). In my book this is a no-brainer... unless, of course, you wanted to DC at Fighter[6]. Of course, your Bard is leveraged even farther; since among other important effects, her song will stack a THAC0 bonus on top of the F/M's already impressive bow ability (just as good as the best of your Fighters), making him a viciously effective ranged warrior.

Suggestions for going into HoW:

The tweaks I described above should prepare your party for HoW. For even better preparation I would suggest that you use the extra play time and oodles of extra expo to build characters that are much more powerful, versatile (and fun!) than can be achieved in an IWD-only game. One thing that you will be glad for more of in HoW/TotLM is Priest power.

Paladin: (As described above.)

Fighter: I suggest a DC Fighter[9, 12 or 13]/Druid (The later the DC, the better. I say this having a DC Fighter[10]/Druid[18] currently in TotLM.) -OR- DC Cleric[15]/Fighter or DC Cleric[15]/Ranger, to augment your DC Fighter/Cleric

Fighter/Thief: (As described above.) If you can stand the excruciating early game pain (no Thief), a DC Fighter[9]/Thief with stacked PP becomes a real mid-to-late game asset. Otherwise, its MC (and pick a race with infravision).

Fighter/Cleric: (As described above, except DC at Fighter[12 or 13].)

Bard: (As described above.)

Fighter/Illusionist: (As described above, except DC at Fighter[9] for the extra HP; or, if you want to do a "Battle Mage," DC at Fighter[12 or 13].)

Another option, here, is to let your Bard carry the early magic duties, and make the last character an MC or DC Thief/Illusionist to give you a Thief in the early game. A DC build will allow your Mage to develop much faster; but at least one of your party should be a race with infravision; so this character, like the Fighter/Thief is a candidate to be MC. (Gnome is the only race that allows an MC Thief/Illusionist; and, happily, Gnome also has infravision.)

Hope you found this interesting and helpful.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 09-03-2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Dancing Virginia]

Wow it's like learning a different language.

Cheers!

Cary

[silencer]

To clarify on the Druid statement:
I stated it all depends on how you wish to play.

If you wanted to focus more on "hack 'n slash", the Druid would by far prove to be the most detrimental aspect to the party. With armor/weapon restrictions to make combat useless, and mostly single-target offensive priest spells (which all have saving throws at that), another Fighter or even Cleric template would be far more superior.

edit: Speeling ... apparently I can't type today.

[ 09-03-2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: silencer ]

[SnarktheStrange]

I just whacked the boss in TOTL. I'm afraid Dangerous Darla, my F-T-M, was a mistake, since I don't cheat on my level dice, and extra points aren't saved. (The die thrown is divided by 3 and added to the hit points, not the sum of all the hit dice divided by 3.)