Satanism

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Aviendha: As you also know, I do not believe in God, and hence Christianity as a whole. I do not intend to continually challenge you over your beliefs for the fun of it, I am genuinely interested in the concepts that we discuss, and wish only to understand better. I want you to know this so that you don’t think I’m just being argumentative. If you would prefer me to ask questions in Private Messages instead of in public threads, just tell me. But I’m assuming that other people would like to hear what I have to say!

Aviendha,

That was a remarkable Post. You touched on MANY of the reasons people choose NOT to accept Christianity.

I do not mind your questions about my faith at all and I will gladly discuss them publicly. As you said, I'm sure there are many others with the same questions or concerns as you and I would much rather put my comments here for everyone to see.

I'll have to address your specific points later. I've been working on them for about 30 minutes so far and haven't gotten past the first 2 or 3 yet.

My Response is going to be a loooong Post, because I'm going to address each of your points as I come to them. I will try to do that later tonight.

Right now, I have to get ready for work.

I'm likewise following this with interest. My own beliefs are shamanic in nature, but it is still interesting to find out how others TRULY practice their beliefs as opposed to the edited versions and propaganda we get from the telly or some books

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: So what your practically saying is you think that everything I have said so far in this thread is "hiding in a web of lies and evasive rethoric"????

AzureWolf,

I don't believe Lifetime or Moni are launching personal attacks against you. Don't get me wrong, I understand your anger. I feel the same way when similar statements are made about Christianity (and as Cloudy pointed out to Neb there have been some seriously harsh comments directed at Christians and their faith in several General Discussion threads).

Back to the point, though. Lifetime and Moni are explaining the Christian perspective regarding Satanism. As I mentioned earlier, ANY religion that doesn't focus on God is (technically) a pagan or "satanistic" religion from a Christian POV.

Satan is the Master of Lies and Deceipt. God actually came down to earth every single day and walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. He gave them a paradise setting and only 1 Rule to follow. But, even though they literally walked with God every day, Satan was able to tempt them into breaking the 1 Rule God had established.

Satan is a fallen angel, but he is still VERY powerful. His greatest power is spreading confusion, doubt, and cynicism about Christianity through trickery and deceipt. Like I said before, Satan doesn't care if you openly worship him....just so long as you DON'T worship God. That's all he cares about.

Again, I fully understand - and respect - the fact that you don't believe this account to be true. I take no offense at that and I don't beleive any offense is meant towards you by the others.

They are simply presenting thier perspective on Satanism in general based on thier belief system.

[Melusine]

Cerek, I just gotta ask - is there any underlying meaningful colour scheme on the basis of which you assign a different colour to each username?

Just kidding!! and again, some good posts on this thread, it's a very interesting read! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: AzureWolf, I don't believe Lifetime or Moni are launching personal attacks against you. Don't get me wrong, I understand your anger. I feel the same way when similar statements are made about Christianity (and as Cloudy pointed out to Neb there have been some seriously harsh comments directed at Christians and their faith in several General Discussion threads). Back to the point, though. Lifetime and Moni are explaining the Christian perspective regarding Satanism. As I mentioned earlier, ANY religion that doesn't focus on God is (technically) a pagan or "satanistic" religion from a Christian POV. Satan is the Master of Lies and Deceipt. God actually came down to earth every single day and walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. He gave them a paradise setting and only 1 Rule to follow. But, even though they literally walked with God every day, Satan was able to tempt them into breaking the 1 Rule God had established. Satan is a fallen angel, but he is still VERY powerful. His greatest power is spreading confusion, doubt, and cynicism about Christianity through trickery and deceipt. Like I said before, Satan doesn't care if you openly worship him....just so long as you DON'T worship God. That's all he cares about. Again, I fully understand - and respect - the fact that you don't believe this account to be true. I take no offense at that and I don't beleive any offense is meant towards you by the others. They are simply presenting thier perspective on Satanism in general based on thier belief system.[/QB]

Have you ever thought that going around stating the presumption that god most defaintly exists and implying that anyone who does not believe in Christianity is either an agent of, or under the sway of a being of pure evil is rather harsh to anyone who does not believe in Christianity?
I mean surely that is disrespectful & intolerant towards their beliefs no matter your intentions?

[ 05-17-2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Dramnek_Ulk ]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: quote: Originally posted by K T Ong: I seem to have read somewhere that according to some Christian mystics (was one of them named Origen or something?) even Satan himself will ultimately be saved. There is therefore no such thing as eternal damnation. Elsewhere I also seem to have read that Satan is actually in a way doing God's will: the temptations he offers to humanity are really 'tests' to promote your inner growth. After all, another name for Satan is Lucifer, which means 'Lightbringer' -- he brings to light your weaknesses by putting temptations in your way, thereby helping you grow. If all this is to be taken seriously, then it would seem to me that Satan is a good guy of sorts, after all! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Sorry K.T., but your impression of Satan is completely off the mark. There is absolutely NO GOODNESS in him whatsoever.

He was called Lucifer BEFORE his fall from Heaven. Originally (before the Creation of Man), he was second in power only to God Himself. But Lucifer wasn't happy with 2nd best. He gathered angels that were loyal to him and they challenged God for His Power. He cast Lucifer out of Heaven and into the "depths of the earth". This was when God created Hell. It was designed solely for Lucifer and his fallen angels.

Satan KNOWS his fate will be eternal torture - there is no escaping it. He has already fought God and lost, so he now does the next best thing. Since He can't hurt God directly, he attacks Him indirectly by tempting His children (that would be us) away from worshipping God. Satan wants to lure as many souls as he can into Hell so that he won't have to suffer alone.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they are filled with the Holy Spirit (the 3rd part of the Holy Trinity). It is the Holy Spirit that points out our weaknesses and flaws. He shows us how disappointing our sinful actions are to God, our Creator. We see our sin through God's eyes then, not ours, and that is what guides us to change our behavior and overcome our sinful nature.

It does NOT mean that we stops sinning. We don't. We still sin against God every single day. But God is a wonderfully loving Creator. He knows our sins before we even commit them. All He asks is that we confess our sins to Him and ask forgiveness. He then forgives us of our sins and wipes the slate clean. Our previous sin is forgotten.

Sorry, I've done my best not to be "preachy" in this thread. I'm still trying to do that. I'm not Posting this to change your opinion, I'm just pointing out the error of your information.

AFA Moni is concerned, I would say that she has every right to say what a "true Satanist" is because she has LIVED with "Gothic Satanists" most of her life. The fact that she overcame that experience to become a Christian is truly remarkable.

AzureWolf, I realize that you consider Moni's Post to be a case of "comparing apples to oranges". In your view, Gothic Satanists have nothing in common with Religious Satanists, other than the name. But she grew up in what sounds like a pretty harrowing scenario for "non-Gothic Satanists", so I think she's earned the right to speak her mind about that.

Keep in mind that MANY Christians would consider MY Posts here to be a "sell out" or an "apologetic" approach because I'm not condemning your pagan worship. I am walking a fine line between respecting your beliefs and compromising mine, but there are FAR TOO MANY Christians that JUST scream "Hellfire and Damnation" at non-believers and never try to SHOW the Love of Jesus Christ to others. They're too blind or intimidated to realize that thier approach will have NO POSITIVE EFFECT for either side.

I would love to see every single person accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, but that simply won't happen. That's a hard fact to accept, but it's reality. Christianity has not had an "un-blemished" past, and that gives many people sufficient reason to doubt its' validity.

The only way I can overcome that and try to gain respect for my chosen faith is if I show that same respect to those of different faiths. I do not agree with your chosen religion, but I still respect you as a person (as I do every member of this board).[/QUOTE]Well lets see here, as everyone knows Im one of the least tolerant people on IW [img]smile.gif[/img] And all I have to say to AZ about this is....Nice post, good thread and interesting link. I don't share your beliefs but then a lot of people do not share mine, Im down with that.

Cerek I just love reading your posts [img]smile.gif[/img] (guess it helps that you agree with me a lot ) Everyone has to find their own way, and this is what trips yer trigger, cool by me...right up untill you hurt children or force your views on others...

Cerek, I too would like to know the answer to Mel's question on the previous page [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Have you ever thought that going around stating the presumption that god most defaintly exists and implying that anyone who does not believe in Christianity is either an agent of, or under the sway of a being of pure evil is rather harsh to anyone who does not believe in Christianity? I mean surely that is disrespectful & intolerant towards their beliefs?[/QB]

Welcome Dramnek,

I wondered how long it would be before you showed up here.

In answer to your question, YES, I understand that some may view my theology as "harsh". That cannot be helped. I firmly believe everything I say and I will present (and defend) my viewpoint in an appropriate manner.

However, if you review this thread, you will see that I am neither disrespectful nor intolerant of those who believe differently.

I don't have to agree with someone to respect them. I present my case and they present theirs. I take no offence when someone questions my beliefs in a respectful manner (such as Aviendha did earlier) and I do my best not to offend anybody who disagrees with me.

BTW, I haven't forgotten your Response in the other thread. I simply haven't had time to Respond to it yet. I will try to address it sometime this weekend.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Melusine: Cerek, I just gotta ask - is there any underlying meaningful colour scheme on the basis of which you assign a different colour to each username?

Yes, actually there is. I always try to "highlight" the names of members when I use them. The easiest way to do that is through color.

I try to use bright colors that will stand out, but I also try to "choose" a color that suits each individual member. I do that by reading thier Posts and seeing if they use a certain color themselves.

Some are easy. Cloudy's favorite color is lavender/purple (mine too, BTW). AzureWolf is Cyan for obvious reasons. Moni's sig is predominantly blue.

Others aren't so apparant at first. I will read the ID name and see what type of "feel" I get from it. What type of mental image does it conjure? I then try to pick a color that is appropriate.

Yorick has the bouncy egg. Baby chicks are yellow. Cyril Darkcloud reminds me of an overcast day, so I use a shade of gray for him.

Then some are just my own personal interpretation. I use Lime for Magik because it just "feels" right to me. He has a military background, but magic transcends weaponry so I had to choose a brighter shade.

If any of you prefer a different "signature" color, just let me know and I will change it.

As for the text, I'm still trying to find a "signature" color. Purple is my favorite, but even Plum is too dark for long Posts. The color should be bright, but not glaring. It should get your attention without "shouting" at you.

It also makes it much easier to find my Posts when scanning a thread.

OK, that's a brief look into Cerek's psyche. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

(Oh, btw, I was just too lazy to use the HTML code for all the different names and colors in THIS thread. And I chose yellow text because it's kind of the default "highlight" color for generic messages).

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Welcome Dramnek,

Ohh! blue color. Is that the color of disaproval?

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I wondered how long it would be before you showed up here.

Like a moth to a flame, ehh?

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: In answer to your question, YES, I understand that some may view my theology as "harsh". That cannot be helped. I firmly believe everything I say and I will present (and defend) my viewpoint in an appropriate manner. However, if you review this thread, you will see that I am neither disrespectful nor intolerant of those who believe differently. I don't have to agree with someone to respect them. I present my case and they present theirs. I take no offence when someone questions my beliefs in a respectful manner (such as Aviendha did earlier) and I do my best not to offend anybody who disagrees with me.

Ahh, but what is a respectful manner?
It’s heavily dependant on their level of emotive involvement with the points you debate & of course very subjective.

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: BTW, I haven't forgotten your Response in the other thread. I simply haven't had time to Respond to it yet. I will try to address it sometime this weekend.[/QB]

Good for you then, or something.