Suck it, Hybrids.

[Klorox]

A diesel Honda? That gets 62.8 miles a gallon?

[Papa Schlumpf]

It's a start.

[Ziroc]

That'll never make it into production in the USA.. no way.. greedy oil pukes won't allow it.

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Ziroc: That'll never make it into production in the USA.. no way.. greedy oil pukes won't allow it.

I disagree. This is the internet age. If people know about it, they'll create a demand for it.

[VulcanRider]

Originally posted by Klorox: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc: That'll never make it into production in the USA.. no way.. greedy oil pukes won't allow it.

I disagree. This is the internet age. If people know about it, they'll create a demand for it. [/QUOTE]So instead the greedy oil pukes will push the price of diesel to $5 a gal. Simple supply & demand...

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by VulcanRider: quote: Originally posted by Klorox: quote: Originally posted by Ziroc: That'll never make it into production in the USA.. no way.. greedy oil pukes won't allow it.

I disagree. This is the internet age. If people know about it, they'll create a demand for it. [/QUOTE]So instead the greedy oil pukes will push the price of diesel to $5 a gal. Simple supply & demand... [/QUOTE]As a former "greedy oil puke", let me enlighten you on the profit margins of the oil industry. Consider these numbers before you start spouting off on who is being greedy:

For branded (Shell, Texaco, BP etc.) gasoline costs (in $ per gallon):

Base retail price for California in June 2007 = $3.19 / gal

That money gets distributed as follows

All taxes (Including state and local sales taxes assumes an average of 8%, State Excise Tax is fixed at 0.18 $ per gallon, Federal Excise tax is fixed at $0.184/gallon) = 0.61 $/gal

Storage costs (State Underground Storage tank fees) = 0.014 $/gal

Refining costs including profits* = 0.74 $/gal

Raw crude cost = 1.69 $/gal or

Distribution costs** = 0.14 $/gal

*Refinery Costs and Profits: The costs associated with refining and terminal operations, crude oil processing, oxygenate additives, product shipment and storage, oil spill fees, depreciation, purchases of gasoline to cover refinery shortages, brand advertising, and profits.

**Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs, and Profits: The costs associated with the distribution from terminals to stations and retailing of gasoline, including but not limited to: franchise fees, and/or rents, wages, utilities, supplies, equipment maintenance, environmental fees, licenses, permitting fees, credit card fees, insurance, depreciation, advertising, and profit.

According to Forbes Magazine,
http://www.forbes.com/energy/2005/05...30oxanoil.html
Oil companies earned 10% in downstream activities (refining and marketing) during the period from 1999 to 2003, and 20% in the upstream (exploration and production) so of the 74 cents per gallon of associated refining costs and $1.69 per gallon for the raw crude, those greedy oil pukes earned a total of 0.41$ PER GALLON OR LESS THAN 14% OF THE TOTAL COST OF A GALLON OF GAS! 41 cents - the freaking GOVERNMENT makes 50% more money off gasoline than the oil companies do!

A 14% ROCE (return on capital employed) is NOT being greedy! Please get your facts straight before you start labelling people as greedy!

Note: The API (American Petroleum Institute) actually lists oil and gas profits at 5.9 cents per $1 of sales or about 18 cents per gallon, or roughly 18 cents or HALF of what I calculated. Data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) indicates that when the average price of unleaded regular peaked at about $3 a gallon in the middle of 2006, major companies were making a profit of about 10 cents a gallon on their U.S. refining and marketing operations as opposed to the 7 cents I calculate. So that 41 cent per gallon total is probably not exact but its probably pretty close. And if you want to know why you pay more for gas in New York than somewhere else, look to the State and Local Taxes which jump to 50 cents per gallon of gas in New York.

[ 07-30-2007, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]

[Arvon]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: A 14% ROCE (return on capital employed) is NOT being greedy! Please get your facts straight before you start labelling people as greedy! [/QB]

The blah,blah removed... I've seen these figures before... Good Job!!!

[Ziroc]

So when these oil companies posted a RECORD profit this past year, it's not being greedy?

What was it? 11.2 Billion?

No offence to you, Micah. you're a good guy, I'm talking about the people at the top.

Every summer, before the busiest driving season comes, they always say "we have shortages---due to some refineries going down---less supply, prices are on the increase. lol.. tis all bullshit. EVERYONE can smell it too.

[VulcanRider]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: As a former "greedy oil puke",

Sorry, didn't mean it personally. It's just that ragging on big oil is almost as much fun as ragging on, say, lawyers. And as Z pointed out, when gas hits record prices and the oil companies post record profits at the same time, they're gonna have a hard time convincing Joe Public they didn't have something to do with it...

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Ziroc: So when these oil companies posted a RECORD profit this past year, it's not being greedy? What was it? 11.2 Billion? No offence to you, Micah. you're a good guy, I'm talking about the people at the top. Every summer, before the busiest driving season comes, they always say "we have shortages---due to some refineries going down---less supply, prices are on the increase. lol.. tis all bullshit. EVERYONE can smell it too.

Z, that smell is from the exhaust of 390 million gallons of gasoline being consumed daily. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Profits are so high because it's all about TOTAL sales. If you make a $1 on a product and sell BILLIONS of that product, you make billions of dollars. US gasoline consumption is 390 MILLION gallons a day! 390 million (let's round up to 400) x 350 days (round down so the math is easier) = 140 Billion gallons per year. And gasoline represents approximately 2/3 of the total oil usage in the USA so that's roughly the equivalent of 210 billion gallons of gas.

Oil company financial statements indicate that the five major oil companies earned $113.33 billion in total profits in 2006. That's about 50 cents profit on those 210 billion gallons, and that assumes an equal profit margin across all product bases. Not far off my 41 cent profit per gallon, Z.

And the refinery issue IS real, it's not bullshit. The US has not invested in new refinery capacity in years. Partly because people gross about the profits. Well the industry won't invest in something with only a 10% return. Even investors want a 12 to 15% return in their portfolios. SO why should the industry invest in something for a 10% return when they can do better and get 12 to 15% elsewhere? Hell, even wall street DEMANDS 15% to show growth! Like it or not, but the oil industry is NOT in this just to keep everyone driving across country in their bloated SUV's and muscle cars. They are in it for a profit and profits aren't bad. But most people do as you do and say geez, 12 billion, that's an awful lot of money! Heck yes it is, and we earn EVERY F**KING PENNY of it!

Prices spiked during Katrina - WHY? Because the pipelines hubs at Port Fauchon got HAMMERED! The raw crude couldn't make it from offshore to the onshore refineries. Supplies dropped, demand didn't so prices spiked

It's also about demand. More people drive in the summer, hence more demand, so prices go up. It's simple supply side economics.

Want to take pot shots at a truly gouging industry? Compare these numbers:

Phizer:
Revenue $48.371 billions USD (2006)
Net income $19.337 billions USD (2006)

Exxon Mobil:
Revenue: $377.635 Billion USD (2006)
Net income $39.50 Billion USD (2006)
9.86% profit margin

Now tell me who we should be accusing of gouging!

[ 07-30-2007, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]