Flags

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: China's navy performs lots of manuevers in the waters between China and Taiwan just to keep us reminded.

On the contrary, the manuevres remind us that the two are very much at odds and could go to war again.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Yorick: Within Australia, Arnhemland is for all intents and purposes an independent nation. Certainly it is soveriegn in most areas. Yet it is part of the State of the Northern Territory, which is part of the federation that is Australia which is part of the British Commonwealth.

Small correction here Hugh. The word 'British' was dropped years ago. It's just 'The Commonwealth' now.

[Davros]

Originally posted by Donut: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Within Australia, Arnhemland is for all intents and purposes an independent nation. Certainly it is soveriegn in most areas. Yet it is part of the State of the Northern Territory, which is part of the federation that is Australia which is part of the British Commonwealth.

Small correction here Hugh. The word 'British' was dropped years ago. It's just 'The Commonwealth' now.[/QUOTE]And another - when did the Northern Territory achieve full statehood?

You are having a bad run tonight Hugh - have you been away from home too long, or perhaps playing with lectricity again .

[Mouse]

Actually, I have always made a distinction between nations and states. I'm not sure just how well this accords with dictionary definitions, but for myself, these are workable definitions:-

A nation is a group of people who share a similar ethnic or cultural commonalities that allow them to identify themselves and be recognised by others as a separate social group regardless of geographic location or political boundaries.

A state is a geopolitical area defined and accepted by it's inhabitants and recognised as sovereign by the majority of the international community.

Thus, the Sioux Nation can exist independently of a Sioux state and it is valid to talk of widely dispersed groups such as the Romany as a nation. States on the other hand are what you find by looking at maps and commonly contain a mixture of ethnic and cultural minorities.

Just occasionally, you come across examples of a nation-state where the two ideas converge. For example, at its foundation, Israel was an attempt to form a Jewish state for the Jewish nation.

I don't claim the above covers all the subtleties and nuances of the subject, but it works for me

[ 02-21-2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Mouse ]

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Yorick: C'mon Charles... That's St. Paddys Irish flag. From the days of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland".

I was wondering where the red x on the union flag came from...

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Leonis: I was wondering where the red x on the union flag came from...

It's not a red X, it's a red cross.

[Timber Loftis]

I just re-read the UN Charter and it interestingly does not define "state" though the term is used a lot in it.

But, the generally-accepted wisdom is that a state is its own sovereign. Massachussetts is not a state because it is not sovereign - being answerable to the U.S.A. How is this different than Tiawan, Yorick? I know Taiwan wants autonomy, but I haven't heard it declare itself an independent sovereign. Maybe you could do it for them.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Donut: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Within Australia, Arnhemland is for all intents and purposes an independent nation. Certainly it is soveriegn in most areas. Yet it is part of the State of the Northern Territory, which is part of the federation that is Australia which is part of the British Commonwealth.

Small correction here Hugh. The word 'British' was dropped years ago. It's just 'The Commonwealth' now.[/QUOTE]I was using the word 'British' to distinguish the British Commonwealth from the "Commonwealth of Australia" as it is officially known.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Davros: when did the Northern Territory achieve full statehood?

Since 1978 when the Australian parliament passed the "Northern Territory self government act" and a legislative assembly was created. It is a functioning state in all ways but official name Davros. I'm calling a spade a spade.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Massachussetts is not a state because it is not sovereign - being answerable to the U.S.A. How is this different than Tiawan, Yorick? I know Taiwan wants autonomy, but I haven't heard it declare itself an independent sovereign. Maybe you could do it for them.

How is Massachussetts different from Taiwan????? Let me count the ways.

Are you being serious Timber or are you truly unaware of the Taiwanese situation?

1.Taxes. No Taxes collected in Taiwan go to China.

2.Government. The Chinese federal government has no authority in Taiwan, no beaurocratic presence, no mandate and no way to impliment any law or desire China has for Taiwan.

3.Ecomomy. The economy of Taiwan is totally separate from Chinas. One is free market capitalist, the other nominally communist.

4.Currency. The American dollar is worth 35.45 Taiwanese dollars as of March 2003. However 1 US dollar is worth 8.28 Chinese Yuans.

The last I checked Massachussetts had the American dollar as it's currency, not it's own. It also has members in the US senate and is connected economically, legally and politically.

Taiwan HAS autonomy. They are not fighting for it. Taiwan IS an independent state and is dealt with in trade arrangements as such. The hullabaloo over not recognising that officially is a load of bollocks pure and simple. Gutless pandering to a bully on the behalf of western governments.

They say one thing and do the complete opposite.