New theory on SIDS

Aelia Jusa · 07-08-2003, 01:20 AM

First, apologies - yes, it's not about War [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Second, I read about this in the paper the other day, and found it really interesting! Here is the source.

Unraveling the mystery of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome

After some forty five years of extensive research, the cause of death classified as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), has baffled science. It is arguably the deepest mystery in medical science. Now, an Australian mathematician believes he has stumbled onto unlocking the mystery behind SIDS, while studying memory and dreams in neural network models.

SIDS is the second largest killer of infants in the first year of life, outside of congenital anomalies (existing at birth), and accounts for some five thousand deaths each year in the United States alone, and possibly one hundred thousand worldwide. SIDS is so poorly understood that it is only diagnosed after every other cause of death is excluded following an extensive autopsy and examination of the death scene. Most infants who succumb to SIDS are usually in good health prior to death. To put it quite bluntly the first and only symptom of SIDS is death. "This is quite extraordinary given we have made such major advances in other medical diseases like cancers", say Dr Christos. "Up to now we have had no idea why so many babies are dying, and why certain preventative measures work."

Dr Christos believes that the underlying cause of SIDS is related to a baby dreaming it is back in the womb where it did not have to breathe because there the mother supplied it with oxygen through the blood. In the course of that dream, a baby may stop breathing and die, because it imagines it does not have to breathe. This astonishing theory came to Dr Christos when he was explaining to friends at a dinner party how lucid-dream researchers (who become conscious during the course of a dream) had discovered that when we dream that we are swimming underwater, we actually hold our breath. He knew we dream about our own set of memories and that a little baby, which dreams for longer than an adult, is likely to dream of being back in the womb, its memory.

"Most theories can explain only a single fact about SIDS, whereas my theory is consistent with ALL of the known facts", says Dr Christos. "And the reason we have not been able to find the medical cause of death is that it is in the mind of the infant." Dr Christos' theory explains why the risk of SIDS is so much higher if an infant is placed to sleep in the prone (face-down) sleeping position, or if it is extensively covered during sleep. Both of these factors may remind the infant of being back in the womb. "Face down, the infant assumes a fetal position, and womb-like conditions may remind the sleeping infant of its fetal memory", he says.

Dr Christos also notes that giving a baby a pacifier (or dummy) reduces the risk of SIDS significantly. When this fact was first discovered, many researchers suggested that this was because a pacifier keeps the infant's airway passage open, but this could not explain why thumb sucking was later discovered to be a risk factor. Dr Christos suggests that a pacifier helps because it is a post-natal phenomenon whereas thumb sucking is something that a fetus normally does at seven months gestation.

Another strange finding is that sleeping an infant in the same room as adults helps to reduce the risk of SIDS, so long as the infant does not sleep in the same bed as an adult. Dr Christos says this is because sleeping in the same room reminds the infant that it has been born, but if an infant sleeps in the same bed as an adult, it may remind it of being back in the womb, because of the heartbeat of the adult the baby is sleeping with.

The fetal memory dream hypothesis, as he likes to call it, also explains why all of the chemoreceptors in our airways and lungs, which detect a fall in oxygen or an increase in carbon dioxide and should normally awake the sleeping infant, fail simultaneously. "These mechanisms are controlled by the brain. The infant does not realize there is a problem. It thinks it is a fetus, and all of the alarm bells are turned off. Other theories have to assert that a SIDS infant is extremely ill, whereas this is simply not the case”, said Dr Christos.

Another key stumbling block for SIDS theories has been to explain the apparent hiatus of SIDS in the first month or two after birth. Fot some reason infants are protected in the first month. Dr Christos says that his theory can explain this as well, for the first time. “The apparatus in the brain which is required for dreaming, such as the connections from the thalamus to the neocortex and back, are not properly developed until one or two months after birth, so a baby does not start dreaming right away.”

"There is no miracle cure or vaccine", says Dr Christos. "The only way to reduce SIDS is to make the environment of the sleeping infant as little womb-like as possible." "There are a number of new measures, other than sleeping the baby prone and avoiding excessive bed covering, that can be taken to reduce the risk further", says Dr Christos. "One could add some white noise, like a radio playing out of tune, for example", he says.

Chewbacca · 07-08-2003, 01:30 AM

What a facinating theory! I am big into dream research, I have tried for years to have lucid expiriences, with little luck, and I am a believer in Jungian dream alchemy as well. This article is certainly brain-food and a welcome change of pace for this forum. Thanks!

Aelia Jusa · 07-08-2003, 01:39 AM

No problem! [img]smile.gif[/img] Yeah being a psych student I'm really interested in brain related matters - it's interesting that a maths professor came up with it - neural networks and the computer analogy really seems to be the way of the future. It's funny actually how our analogies of what the brain and the mind is shape the theories that are come up with - it used to be the brain as a blank slate, so there were learning and conditioning theories abounding. Now the brain is a computer - so networks and connections. Good though, because if we didn't have the analogies there'd be no basis for theories! But that's another story

I actually often have lucid dreams, they're kind of weird. I've never dreamt about being underwater though so I can't personally attest to whether the holding breath thing is true.

Chewbacca · 07-08-2003, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa:
No problem! [img]smile.gif[/img] Yeah being a psych student I'm really interested in brain related matters - it's interesting that a maths professor came up with it - neural networks and the computer analogy really seems to be the way of the future. It's funny actually how our analogies of what the brain and the mind is shape the theories that are come up with - it used to be the brain as a blank slate, so there were learning and conditioning theories abounding. Now the brain is a computer - so networks and connections. Good though, because if we didn't have the analogies there'd be no basis for theories! But that's another story

I actually often have lucid dreams, they're kind of weird. I've never dreamt about being underwater though so I can't personally attest to whether the holding breath thing is true.

Hey if its a lucid dream, I would go looking for a dreamtime swimming pool to test the theory! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have read of expirienced lucid dreamers that could manipulate their dreams at the speed of thought. Changing enviroment or even thier own appearance within a dream was a mere visualization away, so they claim.

Those stories are directly responsible for many pre-bedtime self-hypnosis on my part. Usually I will be aware I am lucid in a dream and then wake up. Only one lucid dream stands out as an expirience of personal transformation for me, but words do fail in trying to describe it. I will keep on trying though.

I have had several dreams where I breathe underwater, once I was swallowed by a whale and then "birthed" by it.

I would have loved to have been lucid in that dream, as grateful I am I actually recalled it.!

[ 07-08-2003, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

Melusine · 07-08-2003, 04:12 AM

Wow, that was a fascinating article, thank you for posting that Aelia!!
Who cares if it's not about the frikken war?

Seriously, that's a remarkable theory! And it *is* able to explain a lot of things, like why certain conditions are more likely to cause SIDS because they remind the baby of the womb. It's really sad too though.

Poor little thing dreaming it's back in the womb and dying because of it, sounds almost surreal.
It would be good if all those tips actually help prevent SIDS, it's such a horrible thing to happen.

Bardan the Slayer · 07-08-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
What a facinating theory! I am big into dream research, I have tried for years to have lucid expiriences, with little luck, and I am a believer in Jungian dream alchemy as well. This article is certainly brain-food and a welcome change of pace for this forum. Thanks!

Really? I've been a lucid dreamer for about 10 years (maybe more), since long before I even knew what a lucid dream actually was. To me, it's the most natural thing in the world to wake up inside a dream. I always find it weird when other people have no idea what it is like.

My father is a lucid dreamer too. His favourite trick when he wakes up inside a nightmare is to conjure up a ladder, use it to climb the nearest tall building, then jump off, thus waking him up.

As for the actualy theory on SIDS, it does seem to make sense. I'm not a biologist or a doctor, but intuitively it seems plausible.

Bardan the Slayer · 07-08-2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chewbacca:
I have read of expirienced lucid dreamers that could manipulate their dreams at the speed of thought. Changing enviroment or even thier own appearance within a dream was a mere visualization away, so they claim.

Yep, I can do that. When I am in a lucid dream state, I can stand in front of a closed door, and will it to be the case that whomever I wish to be behind the door will be there when I open it. It's the most amazing experience. It's like being God in a way. In many ways, it's like the ultimate videogame. Hell, it's like being Neo in the matrix, if you want to look at it that way.

07-08-2003, 03:06 PM

Cool article. I am what I term a natural Lucid dreamer.. I have the most fantastic dreams and when I relate them to my SO it usually elicits a sad shake of the head. I havewhole movies occuring in my dreams and if the dream does not end the way I like or want, I wake and "go back into the same dream and change the ending. This was more prevelent when I was a teen, but still happens every couple of weeks now. I had never heard of lucid dreaming untill I was mucholder. The only problem with the theory is that it is going to be damn hard to prove.

Chewbacca · 07-08-2003, 03:08 PM

That is great Bardan, you must have alot of fun sleeping !

Really, that is remarkable. Most people never have lucid expiriences or at least only get glimpes of what it is like.

Some people don't ever recall their dreams, ever. If it wasn't for the testimony of other people, they wouldn't know that dreams exists. That blows me away!

Aelia Jusa · 07-09-2003, 04:48 PM

I dream much like you MagiK [img]smile.gif[/img] . I don't make weird stuff like Bardan does happen, but just I think in my dreams and if I talk or act it's what I'm thinking I would say or do if you know what I mean, just like I'm awake.

And I agree, Chewie, about people who don't remember their dreams! I didn't used to remember very much but over the last few years I've been having really vivid and often lucid dreams in the early morning which I recall most of when I wake up. Must be weird to not know what it feels like to dream!

Quote:

Originally posted by MagiK:

The only problem with the theory is that it is going to be damn hard to prove.

I agree, that's the problem, because obviously the direct proof is in their heads and we can't know for sure what they're dreaming about. I suppose one first step would be to study babies sleeping and see whether they do ever hold their breath while sleeping. Basically with a theory like this you have to say what predictions does it make and how can we show them, if not the actual behaviour of dreaming about the womb itself. The 'best' indirect proof for lack of direct proof may be to have a very large sample of newborns, say in the thousands, for whom there would be a reasonable chance of some dying to SIDS given the prevalence, whose parents adopted all the safeguards that the theory suggests. Obviously it would be unethical to have a control group to whom you said 'do nothing to prevent SIDS' but that wouldn't necessarily be a problem since we have a prevalence of SIDS in the population already. So then since the theory says these actions should prevent SIDS then any incidence would suggest that it is not sufficient would be proof.

07-08-2003, 01:20 AM	#1
Aelia Jusa Iron Throne Cult Join Date: August 23, 2001 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 42 Posts: 4,867	First, apologies - yes, it's not about War [img]tongue.gif[/img] Second, I read about this in the paper the other day, and found it really interesting! Here is the source. Unraveling the mystery of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome After some forty five years of extensive research, the cause of death classified as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), has baffled science. It is arguably the deepest mystery in medical science. Now, an Australian mathematician believes he has stumbled onto unlocking the mystery behind SIDS, while studying memory and dreams in neural network models. SIDS is the second largest killer of infants in the first year of life, outside of congenital anomalies (existing at birth), and accounts for some five thousand deaths each year in the United States alone, and possibly one hundred thousand worldwide. SIDS is so poorly understood that it is only diagnosed after every other cause of death is excluded following an extensive autopsy and examination of the death scene. Most infants who succumb to SIDS are usually in good health prior to death. To put it quite bluntly the first and only symptom of SIDS is death. "This is quite extraordinary given we have made such major advances in other medical diseases like cancers", say Dr Christos. "Up to now we have had no idea why so many babies are dying, and why certain preventative measures work." Dr Christos believes that the underlying cause of SIDS is related to a baby dreaming it is back in the womb where it did not have to breathe because there the mother supplied it with oxygen through the blood. In the course of that dream, a baby may stop breathing and die, because it imagines it does not have to breathe. This astonishing theory came to Dr Christos when he was explaining to friends at a dinner party how lucid-dream researchers (who become conscious during the course of a dream) had discovered that when we dream that we are swimming underwater, we actually hold our breath. He knew we dream about our own set of memories and that a little baby, which dreams for longer than an adult, is likely to dream of being back in the womb, its memory. "Most theories can explain only a single fact about SIDS, whereas my theory is consistent with ALL of the known facts", says Dr Christos. "And the reason we have not been able to find the medical cause of death is that it is in the mind of the infant." Dr Christos' theory explains why the risk of SIDS is so much higher if an infant is placed to sleep in the prone (face-down) sleeping position, or if it is extensively covered during sleep. Both of these factors may remind the infant of being back in the womb. "Face down, the infant assumes a fetal position, and womb-like conditions may remind the sleeping infant of its fetal memory", he says. Dr Christos also notes that giving a baby a pacifier (or dummy) reduces the risk of SIDS significantly. When this fact was first discovered, many researchers suggested that this was because a pacifier keeps the infant's airway passage open, but this could not explain why thumb sucking was later discovered to be a risk factor. Dr Christos suggests that a pacifier helps because it is a post-natal phenomenon whereas thumb sucking is something that a fetus normally does at seven months gestation. Another strange finding is that sleeping an infant in the same room as adults helps to reduce the risk of SIDS, so long as the infant does not sleep in the same bed as an adult. Dr Christos says this is because sleeping in the same room reminds the infant that it has been born, but if an infant sleeps in the same bed as an adult, it may remind it of being back in the womb, because of the heartbeat of the adult the baby is sleeping with. The fetal memory dream hypothesis, as he likes to call it, also explains why all of the chemoreceptors in our airways and lungs, which detect a fall in oxygen or an increase in carbon dioxide and should normally awake the sleeping infant, fail simultaneously. "These mechanisms are controlled by the brain. The infant does not realize there is a problem. It thinks it is a fetus, and all of the alarm bells are turned off. Other theories have to assert that a SIDS infant is extremely ill, whereas this is simply not the case”, said Dr Christos. Another key stumbling block for SIDS theories has been to explain the apparent hiatus of SIDS in the first month or two after birth. Fot some reason infants are protected in the first month. Dr Christos says that his theory can explain this as well, for the first time. “The apparatus in the brain which is required for dreaming, such as the connections from the thalamus to the neocortex and back, are not properly developed until one or two months after birth, so a baby does not start dreaming right away.” "There is no miracle cure or vaccine", says Dr Christos. "The only way to reduce SIDS is to make the environment of the sleeping infant as little womb-like as possible." "There are a number of new measures, other than sleeping the baby prone and avoiding excessive bed covering, that can be taken to reduce the risk further", says Dr Christos. "One could add some white noise, like a radio playing out of tune, for example", he says. __________________

07-08-2003, 01:39 AM	#3
Aelia Jusa Iron Throne Cult Join Date: August 23, 2001 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 42 Posts: 4,867	No problem! [img]smile.gif[/img] Yeah being a psych student I'm really interested in brain related matters - it's interesting that a maths professor came up with it - neural networks and the computer analogy really seems to be the way of the future. It's funny actually how our analogies of what the brain and the mind is shape the theories that are come up with - it used to be the brain as a blank slate, so there were learning and conditioning theories abounding. Now the brain is a computer - so networks and connections. Good though, because if we didn't have the analogies there'd be no basis for theories! But that's another story I actually often have lucid dreams, they're kind of weird. I've never dreamt about being underwater though so I can't personally attest to whether the holding breath thing is true. __________________

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07-08-2003, 01:30 AM	#2
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	What a facinating theory! I am big into dream research, I have tried for years to have lucid expiriences, with little luck, and I am a believer in Jungian dream alchemy as well. This article is certainly brain-food and a welcome change of pace for this forum. Thanks!

07-08-2003, 04:12 AM	#5
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 43 Posts: 6,541	Wow, that was a fascinating article, thank you for posting that Aelia!! Who cares if it's not about the frikken war? Seriously, that's a remarkable theory! And it is able to explain a lot of things, like why certain conditions are more likely to cause SIDS because they remind the baby of the womb. It's really sad too though. Poor little thing dreaming it's back in the womb and dying because of it, sounds almost surreal. It would be good if all those tips actually help prevent SIDS, it's such a horrible thing to happen.

07-08-2003, 03:06 PM	#8
MagiK Guest Posts: n/a	Cool article. I am what I term a natural Lucid dreamer.. I have the most fantastic dreams and when I relate them to my SO it usually elicits a sad shake of the head. I havewhole movies occuring in my dreams and if the dream does not end the way I like or want, I wake and "go back into the same dream and change the ending. This was more prevelent when I was a teen, but still happens every couple of weeks now. I had never heard of lucid dreaming untill I was mucholder. The only problem with the theory is that it is going to be damn hard to prove.

07-08-2003, 03:08 PM	#9
Chewbacca Zartan Join Date: July 18, 2001 Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth Age: 50 Posts: 5,373	That is great Bardan, you must have alot of fun sleeping ! Really, that is remarkable. Most people never have lucid expiriences or at least only get glimpes of what it is like. Some people don't ever recall their dreams, ever. If it wasn't for the testimony of other people, they wouldn't know that dreams exists. That blows me away!

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