Che Guevara...

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by khazadman: He sought to spread the most murderous idealogy known to man.

By your definitions, so do I. Its easy to lay down a blanket statement like that, but if Guevara, Castro, Stalin, and Mao really represent what a truly Communist state would be like then I'm a small duck. With a pink straw hat. No, really.

As for Guevara in general, I agree with the Hierophant basically. His ideals were at best ill-formed and generally fuzzy. My opinion of the man is that he just tried to do the best he could, but that he had no idea really what the best way forward was. Also my opinion is that whilst the Cuban state as it exists today is far from ideal its a hell of a lot better than how it was under Batista. Overall the world has become better for Guevara's presence in it IMO, not worse. But he's not exactly the embodiement of socialism...

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: And yet do these people ever make mistakes? Do they ever say things they wish they hadn’t et al? Of course they do. Noone is perfect. Noone. (except for... Henry Kissenger, PERFECT EVIL!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA) [/QB]

*blinks eyes*
*reads again*
*shakes head*

Well, I guess your doing the right thing not trying to have a hero, if your idea of a hero is someone that is perfect.

Where did you get the idea that one holds another as a hero because they are perfect?

[ 06-09-2003, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: Iron_Ranger ]

[norompanlasolas]

well, el che was born were i was born, the city of rosario in argentina. and he supported the same football team than i, so of course hes ok by me... speaking seriously, either you agree with his ideals or not, no one can deny his bravery, his compassion and support for latinamerican freedom. he risked his life (and lost it) fighting for revolution in bolivia when he could have stayed comfortably in cuba with a well paid job. he travelled all over the world and fought for what he believed in.

you see... the MAIN difference between people like el che guevera and people like... bush, to name an example is: el che is willing to risk his own life for what he believes in... bush is also willing to risk lives for what he believes in... just not his precious own. i challenge anybody to deny this.

anyways... i bet all the gorillas dissing him (common term used in argentina in the 70s to signify the rightwing fascists) would have kept their mouthes shut if in front of el che though...

[johnny]

Let me get this straight... if you dis Che Guevarra, you're a fascist ????

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: well, el che was born were i was born, the city of rosario in argentina. and he supported the same football team than i, so of course hes ok by me... speaking seriously, either you agree with his ideals or not, no one can deny his bravery, his compassion and support for latinamerican freedom. he risked his life (and lost it) fighting for revolution in bolivia when he could have stayed comfortably in cuba with a well paid job. he travelled all over the world and fought for what he believed in. you see... the MAIN difference between people like el che guevera and people like... bush, to name an example is: el che is willing to risk his own life for what he believes in... bush is also willing to risk lives for what he believes in... just not his precious own. i challenge anybody to deny this. anyways... i bet all the gorillas dissing him (common term used in argentina in the 70s to signify the rightwing fascists) would have kept their mouthes shut if in front of el che though...

In what instance is a leader of millions of people leading the charge, getting killed and leaving the people leaderless a good thing? The days you speak of were done with hundreds of years ago...we learned better and have advanced from those days...tell me you aren't one of those who thinks we should go back to the dark ages.

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: quote: Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: I try not to have any heroes. people all have feet of clay111!!!!!

And yet do these people ever make mistakes?
Do they ever say things they wish they hadn’t et al?

Of course they do.
Noone is perfect. Noone.
(except for... Henry Kissenger, PERFECT EVIL!! AHAHAHAHAHAHA) [/QB][/QUOTE]
We must be having a language dificulty...you seem to have uniqe definitions for things like "feet of clay" and the word "Hero"

Let me help ya out here...

Hero:
Main Entry: he·ro
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'hE-(")rO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek hErOs
Date: 14th century
1 a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage
2 a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3 plural usually heros : SUBMARINE 2
4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion :

See nothing in there about perfect.


Main Entry: feet of clay
Etymology: from the feet of the idol in Daniel 2:33
Date: 1814
: a flaw of character that is usually not readily apparent

So I see the disconnect here is that you do not define "Hero" the way most people do. I will also note that a Biblical quote coming from a socialist is kind of Ironic

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: I'm a small duck. With a pink straw hat. No, really.

Barry....could I have a picture of you?

[Lovisa]

I think that Che Guevara dd a good thing he know what he wanted and did it he was very brave andwent thru hard things. The worst thing was that when he had been executed he layed on a hospital bed and poeple could come and watch him, they cut of his hands and kept 'em. They tought of taking the head but that had been to barbaric [img]graemlins/1disgust.gif[/img]

[Callum Kerr]

You mean he's not a pop star? all i know of him is that he's on a poster on my friends wall... I thought he was a member of smashing pumpkins, honest! (and yes it is the silhouete with dreadlocks and the nosering)

Originally posted by MagiK: In what instance is a leader of millions of people leading the charge, getting killed and leaving the people leaderless a good thing? The days you speak of were done with hundreds of years ago...we learned better and have advanced from those days...tell me you aren't one of those who thinks we should go back to the dark ages.

It may not be very practical... but what's more heroic than dying for what you believe in? Even if it means your cause will be swept away

Originally posted by johnny: Let me get this straight... if you dis Che Guevarra, you're a fascist ????

No... he's saying that the right-wing fascists did/do diss che guevera... not that those who diss are all fascists
think of it this way: All boys are children... are all children boys?

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by johnny: Let me get this straight... if you dis Che Guevarra, you're a fascist ????

Apparently you haven't gotten it straight enough yet, Johnny. Relax, take a deep breath and read his post again, slowly. He actually said something completely different; nothing from which you could draw the conclusion you've drawn now, anyways.

edit: Ah, it seems Callum Kerr already noted the same thing while my connection was down. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-09-2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]