Shield use with ranged char question

[rodeoclown]

GOD this game is KILLING me. I have bags under my eyes, I am truly addicted. DAMN YOU SIRTECH.

OK, no more ranting. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have a gadgeteer and a ranger. I only have ranged weapons equipped for these chars. (omnigun and bow if it matters)

My ranger, even though he has the highest AC of all and is on a flank, gets hit ALL THE TIME. So I thought I would give him a shield (same goes for gadgeteer) but when I do, and when the weapons auto swap (a great feature I might add), only his fists show up as the weapon of choice. I can change it manually in the next round of course, but I hate it when a monster charges him, making him auto swap to the fist (and presumably shield). Same thing happens with gadget.

I have the omnigun in the alt prim spot in order to be able to equip the shield. Anybody else used ranged only chars with shields - and if so, where do you put things?

Thanks as always.

AND CURSE YOU AGAIN SIRTECH.

[EEWorzelle]

Yeah, rodeoclown, it is a tradeoff situation.

I sometimes equip my Rangers and Gadgeteers with shields (I love shields in this game), but you cannot use one when a ranged weapon (other than one-handed throwing) is equipped and is the current weapon.

The Ranger can use a variety of weapons, but you have some hard decisions to make. You can equip them with a sword or axe, that is one-handed and can be used with a shield, but you will need to develop some skill to get much benefit from that.

The shield will only protect you when it is in the current slot. When you have a shield equipped with a sword or axe, but your Bow or Omnigun is your current weapon, it does nothing.

Another problem with a melee weapon and shield for the Ranger or Gadgeteer is practice. If you keep them out of harms way as much as possible, that means you won't get the combat experiences that would otherwise increase your weapon and Shield Skill.

I guess this post adds up to "yeah it really is the way you think it is", but I empathize with your dilemma.

One suggestion, perhaps for another game. I have been doing some analysis recently, for something I am writing, and Dexterity, point for point, gives a huge benefit to the effectiveness of ranged attacks, including for Modern Weapons. When you max Dexterity, it opens the Expert Skill of Reflextion. This is not my favorite Expert Skill, because all it does, apparently, is give a few AC of extra protection, but maybe that is all you need to keep the rate of hits and damage down in those characters, so they die and need to be healed less often. It could be good strategy all around.

[ 08-27-2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Scatter]

Shield and Reflextion can be trained in the same way as Stealth. Reflextion awards 1 AC at 0 Skill and then one more for every 20. (total 6) It trains much more slowly than Shield or Stealth. Shield gets you one extra AC per 15 Skill--limited, however, by the shield--you can only double the shield's AC (except Light Shield: +3 normal and +6 in Defending mode)

[Wereboar]

So I thought I would give him a shield (same goes for gadgeteer) but when I do, and when the weapons auto swap (a great feature I might add), only his fists show up as the weapon of choice. I can change it manually in the next round of course, but I hate it when a monster charges him, making him auto swap to the fist (and presumably shield).

Missile weapons need both hands. In the game, this is done by putting the weapon in the primary hand, and the ammunition in the secondary hand.

In your case, you gave your character two 'sets' of weapon:
Missile launcher + ammo
fists + shield
Since the second one is short range, and the first one is long range, and you allowed auto-swap, the game switchs to fist when enemies are in melee range.

You can switch off autoswap, if you want. In the menu where you equip your character, there is a green symbol below the primary weapons. Switching it to red turns off autoswap.

But you can never use a missile weapon and a shield at the same time (not enough hands, even for Tantris). So when you manually switch back from fists to bow, you stop using the shield.
(maybe there is an exception for frontier phaser or mystery ray. never tried it)

BTW when your ranger is on the flank and gets hit (assuming you have some character in the front rank), then its because the enemies are at the flank. In this case, you could change fighting order during combat and tell one of your front frighters to go to this flank.

scatter - i dont believe your formula for shield skill is quite right. i believe you get additional armour class from your shield skill according to the recipricol of the AC offered by the shield. so, roughly (as i've never tested precisely), i think it's something like

for a +1 shield, you get +0 for shield skill <50, +1 for shield skill 50+
for a +2 shield, you get +0 at <33, +1 for 33-67, and +2 for 68+
for a +3 shield, you get +0 at <25, +1 for 25-49, +2 for 50-74 and +3 for 75+
for a +4 shield, you get +0 at <20, +1 for 20-39, +2 for 40-59, +3 for 60-79, and +4 for 80+

of course, shield bonuses are added before calculating your armour class for shield skill.

so, if you have a 51 shield skill and you are using a 4 AC shield with +10 to shield skill, you would get +3 from shield skill, as 51+10=61, 61 is 3/4 of the way up for a 4 AC shield.

if anyone's tested this, though, i'd love confirmation.

[Scatter]

nope. The first extra point always comes at 15. This is one reason i like to train shield with stealth--in a very short time you get 2 extra AC: one for Shield 15 and one for Stealth 10. You can never more than double a shield's AC, but you get points right away regardless of shield; if i have Round Shield, the 2nd extra AC comes at 30. After that i don't know--by the time i get any higher shields i'm already over 90...

[EEWorzelle]

The web sites that talk about shield are incorrect.

The way it work is there are break points at 25, 50, 75, and, I presume 100, but I do not do artificial training and have never had Shield Skill = 100 on a character than can use more than a +3 shield (other than a Light Shield that I have never happenned to come across in my games - I never do reloads to get such items).

You get +1 AC from Shield Skill, at each of these points, but only up to the level of the Shield. For example at Shield Skill = 25, you will get +1 AC from a Buckler Shield and +1 AC from Shield Skill. At higher Shield Skill levels you will still get only +1 AC.

For a Round Shield, you will get +1 AC from Shield Skill at 25, +2 at 50 and no more.

For a Heater Shield you will get +1 AC from Shield Skill at 25, +2 at 50 and +3 at 75.

I have observed these many times in my games.

[ 08-29-2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

fantastic! thanks for saving me the trouble, eew.