Banning Private Schools

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by MagiK: Willow, MOST US private schools are run by small religious groups who have very little funding, there are tens of thousands of these little "christian schools" floating around out there and Im sure other denominations have them as well, what I do know is that the big BIG BIG difference between them and public schools is discipline, and the priciples of accountability and responsibility that are abscent in public schools..... There also seems to be a very large difference in the parent participation too, the parents are way more involved and encouraged to be, where as in the Maryland public school systems for example, you are never allowed contact with the childs teachers outside very strictly controlled administration set up situations which discourages meetings by setting time requirements aimed at making meeting dificult and inconvenient. Private schools work with the parents schedules and take a far more personal approach to students and teachers. Blame it on Class sizes but the statistics on it don't bear itout.

But would it be so terribly difficult to implement this to public schools? (parent participation excepted perhaps ) Of course it would make an impact if every teacher were responsible for 20 srtudents instead of 40. He/she would even have time to meet up with the students parents. I´m not arguing for banning private schools altohugh it would seem like that since I gang up with Timber in a thread named "Banning private schools" LOL. I´m for raising the standards of public schools up to at least the same levels as private schools. Wouldn´t it be nice for you to only have to pay half for an education just as good? If public schools were as good as private, banning private schools wouldn´t be necessary. Most of them would probably deteriorate
by them self.

[Night Stalker]

First off, throwing money at the problem will not fix things. I don't have time right now to elaborate much. But considder the case of New Jersey. They have for years been trying to improve the quality of education by filtering money away from the "rich" schools to the "poor" schools of Camden, Newark, Jersey City, ect. Yet still, the kids from the "poor" areas continue to fail while the suburban schools are some of the better in the country.

There is a much deeper dynamic going on, and there is no simple fix.

Oh, and I disagree with banning private schools. Gov already has way too much assumed responsibility.

[Attalus]

Timber, you have touched on one reason that private schools do a better job than public schools: students that are preselected for intelligence. There are others: smaller class size (as Willow touched on) and, more importantly, parents that are involved with and keep up with their childrens' education. This has been shown time and again to be the strongest determinant of educational outcome, even more than intelligence. Also, the school and teachers are responsible to the parents for performance, so they can't just show movies during class. Public schools are insulated by teachers' unions and the politicl; process. Also, public schools must accept unmotivated and disruptive children, which private schools would never tolerate, giving learning a better environment.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Gee, MagiK, so... um.... nice.... to see you trolling the IWF once again. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] We really have missed the Grumpy Old Muppets lately. But... um... come to think of it, just don't post on any of MY threads, okay? [img]graemlins/kidding.gif[/img]

You know...I read this and then I thought about it...then I slept on it...and all I could think to say in response is..."Dude! That was HARSH." I now you said you were just joking and all but it just didn't come accross that way. I don't believe that you can classify me as a troll and I really hope you weren't serious about not posting on your threads.

And Back ON topic, just wanted to throw out one more anecdotal tidbit about the private school my son started in. At 4 he went into a "generic type" christian school...I was not thrilled with the half hour of religion he had to sit through each day, but in the end it was a small price to pay to watch my son learn to read a full two years before the public school would have required him to. As for his "smaller class size" there were 42 children in his class.

Edit: My apologies if I was too sensitive in my first paragraph, but that is the thought I was left with.

[ 02-06-2003, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Kaltia]

Originally posted by MagiK: You know...I read this and then I thought about it...then I slept on it...and all I could think to say in response is..."Dude! That was HARSH." I now you said you were just joking and all but it just didn't come accross that way. I don't believe that you can classify me as a troll and I really hope you weren't serious about not posting on your threads.

Awwwww....*hugs MagiK Don't worry, Unca M [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Timber, what you said about American colleges-

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Of course you do - especially if you want to teach College-level or higher. We may have crap high schools, but our colleges are so good, students actually catch up and surpass their peers in other countries.

That doesn't seem right to me. How can one person go from crap high-school to fantastic college? Usually, people expect the next educaton step to be their last. Either your high schools are better than you claim or your colleges are worse.

[ 02-06-2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Kaltia ]

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by harleyquinn: Sorry, can't agree. I don't make anywhere near $200K, but when I have kids, my kids will probably go to private school. Why? 1) Politians keep throwing around how bad our education system is, but everytime the new budgets come around, what's the first to get cut? (this seems to be true no matter what party the polititions are in). The schools where I am are hurting, BAD, and the governor just announced a HUGE cut to education, so how exactly do they expect the schools to be able to educate when they have to cut good teachers, need to make do with outdated books and supplies, etc. (snip) Until our government gets it that we need to spend more on quality education for our children and less on special interests, my opinion of this will remain the same. Also, my best friend teaches in the public schools up here, and she said she'll never send her kids to a NY public school until they improve (this is not a slam against the teachers, they are too often stuck between a rock and a hard place because I'm sure they'd much rather be able to spend 2 extra weeks talking about WWII because kids are excited to learn then rush them through it so that they can cram in all that they are now required to teach in one years time).

And what got cut in the NY budget this year? DING DING DING...YES, you win the prize! EDUCATION both at the lower and higher levels. The state University is going to increase it's tuition by approximately $1500. And major cuts are being made in the K-12 system, which will devolve to local town /city governments to cover. Guess what? The ones who suffer are the kids.

I too have a friend who teaches...well used to teach (she got disgusted and quit last year) in schools up in the northeast US. She and her husband are stretching their budget and finding unique ways to save money because they are now planning to send their second child to private school when she starts middle school next year (her brother is halfway through High School in the same private school). Why? Because they took their daughter to the PUBLIC school that she would be moving up to as a 7th grader next year and at the 'public relations' shindig they announced they would no longer have special classes for the gifted students and were going to trim a few of their programs that the poor kid was so anxious to get into. She stopped and looked at her parents and said there was no way she wanted to be in that school now, as she'd never learn anything- and this is from a girl who is popular, bright and LOVES school! She's been in public schools all the way up to this level and now is suddenly willing to take a stricter atmosphere in order to LEARN something!

Her mother has seen public schools and had already decided she wouldn't teach in them any more due to discipline issues and budget shortcuts that were being covered by resourceful administrators by making teachers cover EVERY period of the day. No breaks for bathroom and no breaks for prepping their materials, they simply cover for any other teacher who is out instead of paying a substitute! Sheesh!

I agree, the public school system needs help, but taking away the only decent alternatives in the meantime, isn't the answer.

[ 02-06-2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Gee, MagiK, so... um.... nice.... to see you trolling the IWF once again. [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] We really have missed the Grumpy Old Muppets lately. But... um... come to think of it, just don't post on any of MY threads, okay? [img]graemlins/kidding.gif[/img]

You know...I read this and then I thought about it...then I slept on it...and all I could think to say in response is..."Dude! That was HARSH." I now you said you were just joking and all but it just didn't come accross that way. I don't believe that you can classify me as a troll and I really hope you weren't serious about not posting on your threads.[/QUOTE]MagiK - I REALLY WAS ONLY JOKING!!!!!!! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Seriously, I thought I put in the appropriate tags. Troll = joke. Don't post on my threads = joke. [img]graemlins/kidding.gif[/img] = joke tag. I was GLAD TO SEE YOU POSTING AGAIN. I recalled a self-imposed hiatus, and noticed a drop-off in your participation. Then, I noticed you were posting again. Gosh, you namby pamby sensitive liberal. *Thinks about hugging MagiK, then remembers people are watching*

Back on-topic. I think public schools can work. This is not a thread where I advocate nix'ing private schools. I posted someone else's thoughts, which I'd found interesting.

My public schools system was fine. Yes, I had to put up with losers holding the class back (nods to Attalus's quote on pre-selection for intelligence), but they also had academic teams and programs for "tifted and galented" students too. Yes, my education was not what the private schools kids had - as I found out in college. Course, private school students were, mostly, all wealthy then, so I'm sure their life would have been "enriched" in many ways mine had not no matter how you slice it.

But, in today's world I will have NO choice but to send my kids to private school. The public school system (exception: many rural areas) is just scary. And, since I live in a large urban area, the difference is only exacerabated.

BTW, to you folks discussing New York education. I never was part of the NY state secondary school system - but when I lived in Syracuse there were some public schools, 2 or 3 of them, in and around the city that were some of the best in the nation. I had those schools tossed at me as one more "perk" of living there when the firm was trying to entice me to go there, as well. I don't recall many of their names, but I do remember Fayette-Manlius as one of them.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Kaltia: Usually, people expect the next educaton step to be their last. Either your high schools are better than you claim or your colleges are worse.

Kaltia, it is an unfortunate fact of life, here, that public high schools are merely caretaker organizations, except for the "gifted and talented" programs, and special magnet schools. The first year of college is to get everyone on the same page, and then they really start to educate you. But our University system is consistently rated the best in the world. And, you are right, what's with thequotes?

[ 02-06-2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

[Kaltia]

Attalus-sorry to break it to you-Japan has the best universities. Along with the most productive country (the citizens there produce more) and the highest suicide rate (because they're so productive. They have no holidays or weekends, I think)(We did it in Geography...yuchies...).

I am in no position to comment on Amnerican Universities. I know they're about equal with ours and most universities in the rest of Europe, however.

[Attalus]

Actually, Kaltia, from what I've read, the Japanese universities are viewed as second-rate. But, I will admit, I do not have a link or anything. We do have the highest rate of foreign students entering to go to Universities, here.