It's CHRISTMAS people, not XMAS...

[Cloudbringer]

Hey Antryg, good job- are you sure we got the whole 45,000 worth, though?

FWIW, the giving of gifts was seen as something to be done in reminder of the Wise men bringing gifts to Christ.

I'm going to especially enjoy this Christmas as it will be my first with my fiance. I hope everyone here has a little time with friends and family around this time of year, whether you celebrate Christmas or some other holiday. Or none at all. I will wish you a joyful time, because for me, it's a beautiful season full of promises and family. Gifts are a plus but they aren't my REASON for celebrating.

Now if only the people in the mall would stop playing those horrid 'rocking around the Christmas tree' type songs... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[antryg]

[quote]Hey Antryg, good job- are you sure we got the whole 45,000 worth, though?[quote]
Don't make fun of me Cloudy, it took me 3 years just to learn this much.

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

I always thought that Christmas time was a pagan holiday, called "Yule", that the Christians stole where the yule log was burned for a week nonstop and there was much feasting and wenching going on.Much like they stole and mutated Samhain,Beltain,Lughnasadh,and Imbolc for their own ends. That sounds like a lot more fun that watching "Miracle on 42nd st." and "Its a wonderful Life' for the umpteenth million time.

[StigTC]

Originally posted by antryg: I'm glad you asked Lord Lothar. The story begins in the 1st century AD in a time before the sacred writings of Christianity were formalized. Most of the Christian groups were spread apart and relied upon a copy of an apostolic letter and maybe one of the gospel accounts. At this time Easter was the only sacred day that was universally celebrated by Christian groups but the celbration of Easter was not observed consistently by differing groups. The birth of Christ was recognized but not celebrated. Easter was celebrated by most groups as a variable date, being tied to the celbration of Passover. One group, the Quatro Decimanians celebrated Easter on March 25th. This was based on the actual date for Passover in the year in which Jesus was crucified. Later on, groups of Christians began to celebrate the birth of Jesus. How do you decide which date to use? Eastern philosophy views time and events as being circular while Greek (Western) philosophy sees time/events as linear. In Eastern view important events are symbolically linked (ie beginning of life/ death occur on the same date). At this time life was believed to begin at conception. Thus conception occured on March 25 (date of the death of Christ) and birth was 9 months later(December 25th). The Quatro Decimanians lost the debate on when to celebrate Easter (it's still tied to Passover) but their groundbreaking work resulted in us having Christmas on December 25th.

But in Denmark we celebrate Christmas on the 24th...
You got some 'splaining to doo.

[Downunda]

Originally posted by StigTC: But in Denmark we celebrate Christmas on the 24th... You got some 'splaining to doo.

Not really. Danish people are just wierd [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[StigTC]

True, but it still doesn't explain how it started.

[Epona]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: I always thought that Christmas time was a pagan holiday, called "Yule", that the Christians stole where the yule log was burned for a week nonstop and there was much feasting and wenching going on.Much like they stole and mutated Samhain,Beltain,Lughnasadh,and Imbolc for their own ends. That sounds like a lot more fun that watching "Miracle on 42nd st." and "Its a wonderful Life' for the umpteenth million time.

THANK YOU!
Having a midwinter celebration on that date predates Christianity. I will call it whatever I like.

25th of December was the Roman Saturnalia - a festival in honour of the god Saturn.
25th of December was also the birth of the eastern god Mithras - widely celebrated throughout the Roman world at the same time as Christianity was just getting started.
Yule is the pagan midwinter festival.

It has long been the case that in the depths of winter folks have needed something to cheer them up, mark the seasons, and as a marker to know when to start ploughing your plot of land ready for planting next years crops. The 25th December has long been associated with such festivals. It is NOT a Christian festival to non-Christians. Christians, if you want to call it Christmas please do so, but since I don't celebrate it (and come from a pagan family anyway), I will refer to it in whichever manner I chose. If anyone gets upset by this, please remember that I don't make you refer to Easter as Ostara (the pagan festival) - which is where the word Easter is taken from!

EDITING because I didn't read the previous post properly.
Early Christians did NOT 'steal' any pagan festivals. Christianity was spread around the western world by Romans, it was in their culture to 'mix and match' roman and non-roman festivals, just in the same way that they adopted and adapted indigenous architechture, art, religious rituals, deities etc. So when dealing with Christianity, Romans did the exact same thing - started to celebrate Christian events at the same times as pre-existing festivals. This is not theft in any sense of the word. If other religions all but died out while Christianity survived, that is not the fault of early or present day Christians.

[ 11-22-2002, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]

[Arnabas]

Well, I am coming to this debate a bit late... Epona beat me to it. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I also celebrate Yule, being a merry Pagan lad.
But on the topic of abbreviating words... I laugh at people abbreviating "June" as "Jun". That extra letter takes a lot of time... Lol

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: THAT is what I meant about putting Christ back in Christmas, btw

My dad had a great way of putting Christ in Christmas... every Christmas morning, us kids would run into my parents bedroom and wake up mom and dad, so we could go see what was under the tree. As soon as we woke them up, dad would yell "Jesus Christ it's four a.m.! Get back in bed before I beat your asses!"
It was always a merry time at nmy house...