Science- Religion or Not?

[theifprowess]

yorick coal wasnt formed from nothing like you proclaim. so a diamond itself came from coal it didnt come from nothing. it didnt appear out of thin air. millions of years from now another island will eventually surface of the coast of the big island hawaii. it is said from scientists that it will actually be larger thn the big island itself. it is happening not because god willed it but because the earth of its many millions of years has changed or "evolved" into what it is now. and how is it science can prove that an island is coming before god has willed it? if this planet had no water to it could life still exist if god willed it?

[caleb]

I didnt think anyone outside of Hawaii knew of molokini [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by theifprowess: yorick coal wasnt formed from nothing like you proclaim. so a diamond itself came from coal it didnt come from nothing. it didnt appear out of thin air. millions of years from now another island will eventually surface of the coast of the big island hawaii. it is said from scientists that it will actually be larger thn the big island itself. it is happening not because god willed it but because the earth of its many millions of years has changed or "evolved" into what it is now. and how is it science can prove that an island is coming before god has willed it? if this planet had no water to it could life still exist if god willed it?

You're attempting to limit the unlimitable. If he could create life reliant on water, he could create life reliant on something other than water.

If he could will light into existance from nothing, then willing coal that can turn into diamonds under pressure (what a great concept to apply to human character BTW) is no sweat.

It seems that you're not grasping the concept of an omnipotent creator. Trying to disprove a creator by claiming that the act of creating itself is beyond it's power is kind of futile The greater the achievement, the greater the power of an omnipotent creator awareness. Whatever path it took, creationists believe the creator was behind it.

I'm just not sure you're understanding the concept.

Thiefprowess, do you know what's preventing the universe from flying apart?

Atoms are held together by an energy. What is causing that energy?

[ 06-21-2002, 04:40 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by John D Harris: I beleive the Bible says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, is not forgivable. Exactly what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is I don't know for sure.

This is a subject that I have given a LOT of thought. I've read the Bible, prayed, and discussed the issue with other Christians.

The best example I can give of the "unpardonable sin" is not just blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. After all, a certain word popular in American culture fits that category.

Rather, it is the complete rejection of God and His Holy Grace. It is unforgivable because the person has NO DESIRE to seek forgiveness. They have totally rejected the very idea of God's existence or authority and have "cut off all future communications" with Him.

In a situation like that, God will not offer forgiveness - because no forgiveness will be sought.

BTW, thiefprowess, it will be a little time before I can answer your Reply. My keyboard at home fritzed on me last night and I have only a limited amount of time available at work. I will address your points as soon as I have a chance.

Until then, be well.

[caleb]

"My keyboard at home fritzed on me last night"

I feel your pain. Do you have to copy paste blank spaces because your spacebar is broke also [img]graemlins/question.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Oblivion437]

Let's not overlook the Zoroastrians of Persia, which are THE OLDEST Monotheists in the world. The religion has a God, and his brother is the 'Devil.' It was started in ancient Persia by Zarathustra before the time of Abraham. So I say, what if the Zoroastrians are right, and Yorrick, you're wrong? Will you go to their hell? This talk of God being too 'profound' or too 'incomprehensible' to the human mind is ridiculous... We can understand his teachings, yet we can't comprehend him? The invariable logic loop to that is ridiculous, and makes no sense to me... It's proof as to why Christianity doesn't qualify as a science, it can't be proven or disproven, as it makes statements that are beyond theories, it doesn't refute the possibility that God does or does not exist, and gives no evidence, it states things that cannot in a worldly manner be argued, thus it rests secure. To say he is incomprehensible makes him incomprehensible, which is therefore incorrect, as you create hypothetical existence in a realm that cannot be proven to exist, much less contain 'God.' Science can only call something fact if it can assure it, Religion can say it's fact, not substantiate it, and make it accepted by people abroad, and all due to the fact that science has no stand against it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: This talk of God being too 'profound' or too 'incomprehensible' to the human mind is ridiculous... We can understand his teachings, yet we can't comprehend him? The invariable logic loop to that is ridiculous, and makes no sense to me... It's proof as to why Christianity doesn't qualify as a science,

Do you fully know and understand me? Do you know all I can and cannot do in my life? All I have or have not done?

No.

Can you still read the words I choose to type?

There we go. We only know what God chooses to reveal about himself. No logic loop at all.

On the matter of Christianity, were you not reading the thread? No-one claimed Christianity was a science. Christianity is a relationship.

Theology is a science.

[ 06-21-2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[DeSoya]

Hi! I'm back.
I brought up this topic at a party I was at last night and got some interesting answers. One of my friends pointed out an intriguing distinction. He said that while the practice of science may have very little to do with religion, the way science is treated by the general masses bears some resemblence to religion. Your basic Average Joe or Jane out on the street doesn't understand the complexities of a hypothesis (not that I fully understand this either... But then again I'm still in school) or the tenuous standing of a theorem. So when a scientist comes out and says we have a theory and this is how it works John and Jane Doe say "Oh okay! Now I know something." And accept the theory as fact. In essence, they have faith in the theory. Similarly worshippers have faith in a God of some sort.
So... There are two major differences between science and religion. First off the people in the higher echelons of science (the scientists, obviously) shouldn't/don't have anymore faith in their theories than their last batch of experiments tells them they should. In religion the higher echelons should/must have faith in the God that they preach about. Secondly science is an exploration outward. Knowledge beyond the self. Religion is just the opposite.

I think the whole problem comes down to focus and definition. Where do we put the focus when we talk about science, the scientists or the science-ees? Then you have to ask, what definition of science and religion are you using? I say that from now on we should preface these big question discussions with a debate about semantics. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

DeSoya

[theifprowess]

i want god to reply to this post, please reply:

which came first the chicken or the egg?

end our suffering and wanton need to know this question.please one litle miracle to answer this question.

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by theifprowess: i want god to reply to this post, please reply: which came first the chicken or the egg? end our suffering and wanton need to know this question.please one litle miracle to answer this question.

I'm sorry, Bhaal is unavalible at the moment, in fact hes dead, and since I chose to remain a mortal, you seem to be outa luck [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]