WTF?! - Page 2

Larry_OHF · 05-29-2003, 12:14 PM

Merciful, this is not negotiable.

I have already gone through this months ago with somebody on the NWN forum, and I don't feel like having to explain it anymore.

Main point is: Do as you see fit in your own home in your own country, but telling people to do so on this forum will get you into trouble with administration. Since the teams that make these games often visit this forum, we will not let it appear that we allow any such activity as pirating in any form to be discussed in public as though we approve of it. Mention of such activity is against our Terms of Service.

This is a privately owned website and you will you obey the rules laid forth. That goes for anyone that wants to discuss this further.

Pyrius · 05-29-2003, 12:14 PM

The Merciful hit the nail stright on the head...it would be illegal to burn a not bought (like my english?)game or to sell burned copies....backups are acceptable by law...I know, Im studying patent law. But any way, there is a warranty on all games, if it breaks due to the mismanufacturing of the case and its in the warranty time perios you should be able to send the game back for a replacement or reimbursment(not sure if I spelled that right).........

Larry_OHF · 05-29-2003, 12:32 PM

Thanks pyrius, I appreciate your post...however I only have our in-house rules to go by, and in our rules, Ziroc has stated:

Do not discuss pirating games, bragging about pirating or anything else...The only possible thing you CAN discuss is the so-called 'cracks' for no CD operation. SOME Games don't work on some peoples CD-ROM's. This is because of a special copy protection called 'Safe Disc'. But that is it. Anything else is considered pirating.

That is the part that tells me that he does not personally want any talk of burning anything, leaving no room for debate. Now, I am not a practiced lawyer or even admit to understanding the clauses of law, but I have to go with what I see written and what I deduct from it. If he(Ziroc) is wrong, and you can provide written legal proof to him that he should allow such a thing on his privatey owned website, then please e-mail him and CC me on it, the written law that states that his deduction is a fallacy.

[ 05-29-2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Larry_OHF · 05-29-2003, 12:50 PM

After more careful examination, I see that we are arguing over two separate matters.

1. If it is legal.
2. If it can be discussed on this forum.

Ziroc's wording says "Do not Discuss". He does not say..."do not do."

Thus our debate is over. Whether or not it is legal is not the question here, but my post was the only one that referred to it being "illegal". Since I do not have a written copy of the law to see, then I have to assume you are telling the truth that it "is" legal to make a backup, thus proving me wrong on that aspect alone, but that does not make it permissable to discussion on this forum. Therefore, by the rules of the forum, a person cannot talk about it, even if it is legal. I am assuming that by allowing any type of discussion that mentions the burning of a CD would cause other members to actually not see fault in burning in the fashion that is constituted as "illegal"...because maybe they would not see the distinction in circumstances.

FYI...The lawyer for my company (Triad Guaranty Insurance) says that she is unaware of any law allowing the production of a backup copy of software, and that my deduction is correct that even if it were true, the wording of "no discussion" ends the debate.

[ 05-29-2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

Luvian · 05-29-2003, 02:52 PM

Our rules are clear, as Larry said, we do not want any discussion of anything related to piracy, and yes, burning games is illegal, regardless of the justification.

You can use any moral fallacy you want to justify your actions, the thruth is that the devs never intended for people to copy their games.

I'm locking this thread now, D*Ranged will have to look elsewhere for his help.

[ 05-29-2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

Larry_OHF · 05-29-2003, 06:08 PM

Opening only long enough to insert this excerpt from p. 152 of the Ice Wind Dale II Instruction Manual.

Copying Prohibited

This software product and the manual are copyrighted and all rights are reserved by Interplay Entertainment Corp. and are protected by the copyright laws that pertain to computer software. You may not copy the software. You may not loan, sell, rent, lease, give, sublicense, or otherwise transfer the software (or any copy). You may not modify, adapt, translate, create derivative works, decompile, dissamble, or otherwise reverse, engineer or derive source code from all or any portion of the software or anything incorporated therein or permit or encourage any third party to do so.

[ 05-29-2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

05-29-2003, 12:14 PM	#12
Pyrius Dungeon Master Join Date: August 18, 2002 Location: America Age: 39 Posts: 69	The Merciful hit the nail stright on the head...it would be illegal to burn a not bought (like my english?)game or to sell burned copies....backups are acceptable by law...I know, Im studying patent law. But any way, there is a warranty on all games, if it breaks due to the mismanufacturing of the case and its in the warranty time perios you should be able to send the game back for a replacement or reimbursment(not sure if I spelled that right)......... __________________ Im not a thief....I just believe in sharing.<br />If anyone asks, I wasnt there and there wasnt any witnesses.

05-29-2003, 12:32 PM	#13
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Thanks pyrius, I appreciate your post...however I only have our in-house rules to go by, and in our rules, Ziroc has stated: Do not discuss pirating games, bragging about pirating or anything else...The only possible thing you CAN discuss is the so-called 'cracks' for no CD operation. SOME Games don't work on some peoples CD-ROM's. This is because of a special copy protection called 'Safe Disc'. But that is it. Anything else is considered pirating. That is the part that tells me that he does not personally want any talk of burning anything, leaving no room for debate. Now, I am not a practiced lawyer or even admit to understanding the clauses of law, but I have to go with what I see written and what I deduct from it. If he(Ziroc) is wrong, and you can provide written legal proof to him that he should allow such a thing on his privatey owned website, then please e-mail him and CC me on it, the written law that states that his deduction is a fallacy. [ 05-29-2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ] __________________

05-29-2003, 12:50 PM	#14
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	After more careful examination, I see that we are arguing over two separate matters. 1. If it is legal. 2. If it can be discussed on this forum. Ziroc's wording says "Do not Discuss". He does not say..."do not do." Thus our debate is over. Whether or not it is legal is not the question here, but my post was the only one that referred to it being "illegal". Since I do not have a written copy of the law to see, then I have to assume you are telling the truth that it "is" legal to make a backup, thus proving me wrong on that aspect alone, but that does not make it permissable to discussion on this forum. Therefore, by the rules of the forum, a person cannot talk about it, even if it is legal. I am assuming that by allowing any type of discussion that mentions the burning of a CD would cause other members to actually not see fault in burning in the fashion that is constituted as "illegal"...because maybe they would not see the distinction in circumstances. FYI...The lawyer for my company (Triad Guaranty Insurance) says that she is unaware of any law allowing the production of a backup copy of software, and that my deduction is correct that even if it were true, the wording of "no discussion" ends the debate. [ 05-29-2003, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ] __________________

05-29-2003, 02:52 PM	#15
Luvian Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 27, 2001 Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada Age: 43 Posts: 6,763	Our rules are clear, as Larry said, we do not want any discussion of anything related to piracy, and yes, burning games is illegal, regardless of the justification. You can use any moral fallacy you want to justify your actions, the thruth is that the devs never intended for people to copy their games. I'm locking this thread now, D*Ranged will have to look elsewhere for his help. [ 05-29-2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ] __________________ Once upon a time in Canada...

05-29-2003, 06:08 PM	#16
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 48 Posts: 14,759	Opening only long enough to insert this excerpt from p. 152 of the Ice Wind Dale II Instruction Manual. Copying Prohibited This software product and the manual are copyrighted and all rights are reserved by Interplay Entertainment Corp. and are protected by the copyright laws that pertain to computer software. You may not copy the software. You may not loan, sell, rent, lease, give, sublicense, or otherwise transfer the software (or any copy). You may not modify, adapt, translate, create derivative works, decompile, dissamble, or otherwise reverse, engineer or derive source code from all or any portion of the software or anything incorporated therein or permit or encourage any third party to do so. [ 05-29-2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

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