Question about becoming Prestige Class with help from Magic Items

Djinn Raffo · 10-02-2003, 12:38 PM

Ok question about getting Prestige Classes:

I started a new character as a Dwarf Barbarian, he's chaotic evil and at level 3 right now. I just got the Cleave feat which is a prerequisite along with being Evil for becoming a Blackguard. The other prerequisite for this prestige class is having 5 in Hide skill. Right now i have 3 in hide (i got 2 in it at character creation, it's not a class skill, and one more at level 3)

Now my question is if i was to buy and wear something like the Chain of Stealth (gives + 6 to Hide skill) or the Cloak of Elvenkind (+9 or something to Hide).. Would, when i level up to level 4, can i now be able to become a Blackguard even though if i took the armour or cloak off i wouldn't have the Hide prerequisite but with it on i do?? And would i want to do this if i can?

Micah Foehammer · 10-02-2003, 12:43 PM

IIRC, the answer is NO. The prerequisites based on skill levels, BAB etc. are all based on BASE skills and NOT the modified values taking items into account.

Morgeruat · 10-02-2003, 12:47 PM

does it take into account skill bonuses for stats (ie high dex bonus granting better hide ability)?

Djinn Raffo · 10-02-2003, 12:59 PM

Thanks for the quick reply Mr. Foehammer! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Micah Foehammer · 10-02-2003, 01:58 PM

No problem Djinn. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Morgeraut - I believe the answer to that is ALSO NO. It's BASE abilities that count IIRC.

ScottG · 10-02-2003, 04:13 PM

yup its only base abilities that count...

btw, (I haven't done this but) the $ manual suggests simply saving your skill points when you level-up (by not placing skill points into skills) and then simply shovel in those saved skill points when you reach a level where you have the skill points neccesary AND the when the level allows that many skill points for that particular skill.

For instance: I believe you can reach a skill level of 5 in stealth naturally by character level 2 regardless of class (though I'm not sure, I think that all classes allow stealth) - however if your a fighter and you have very few skill points to place into any skill at each level-up, (beyond of course character creation level 1), you might not have enough points to overcome the penalty to even place 1 skill point into steath. So instead what you do is save up the points until you reach a level where you have enough points to overcome the penalty.

Alternativly you can of course multiclass to a stealth class to overcome the penalty.

Djinn Raffo · 10-02-2003, 04:33 PM

Hmm that's interesting, thanks ScottG. I was worried about those penalties when at Level 2 i wasn't able to upgrade my Hide skill. Then at level 3 i could put one point into it.

Any idea what the penalties are for upgrading a non-class skill?

Maybe i should just multi-class my Barbarian at my fourth character level to a Rogue or Ranger and then at 5 go for the Blackguard (if possible, which i think it should be)! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-02-2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

robertthebard · 10-02-2003, 06:45 PM

Multi-classing to a char class that has stealth is a good idea, but be sure you want to build in what ever class you take, as you can only have 3. There is no penalty, per se, for taking a non class skill, but it does cost 2 skill points, instead of one. You can counter the non skill costs with a higher int score, which will give you more skill points to use.

Djinn Raffo · 10-03-2003, 02:17 AM

Well i could've leveled up to 4 and multi-classed to any class that has Hide as class skill and at next level (character 6) make it to Blackguard. What's the fastest to a Prestige Class anyone? What takes the longest? But i decided to stick it out as a Barbarian for awhile.

I think there is a penalty there Robert because some level ups i can take a point in Hide and some i can't. At level 3 i was able to take one point in Hide when i had 4 skill points available; i should've been able to take 2. At level up to level 4, like it was for gaining second, i wasn't able to advance my Hide skill at all! (and per ScottG's post above i decided to not use any skill points so next level up i'll have 8 available, let's see if it works).
If the penalty is every third level you can max out a non class skill then, if i stick with Barbarian, i should make 5 in Hide by ninth level and change to Blackguard at level 10. (if that is indeed how advancing in non class skills works, and holding back on using skill points at this level up doesn't work then...

). The prospect of a level 10 Dwarf Barbarian, and if i keep it up that far, level 10 Blackguard has me excited. I will have to come onto the Undermountain server to rip it up!

[ 10-03-2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

ScottG · 10-03-2003, 02:03 PM

I think its a two skill point penalty for non-class skills. IE. you need 3 points (not 2) for one point in a non-class skill. So if you have a base of 2 skill points available to you every level (except level 1) and you plowed in enough points to have 2 points in stealth/hide at level 1 then you need 3 additional points in that skill. The skill level itself isn't a problem as noted above (level 2 should get you to 5). So if you get 2 skill points every level-up beyond level 1 then you will need to save your points at level 2. You'll spend 3 points at level 3 and save one point. This nets you 3 in hide skill at level 3. At level 4 you have 2 skill points again plus the one you saved allowing you to place one more point into hide skill, so at level 4 you have 4 points in hide skill. At level 5 you have to save both points. At level 6 you can place 3 points into hide to get your last point, (5 total points in hide), and still have one point left over to spend or save. At level 7 you can now dual to Blackguard (provided you meet the base attack bonus and your character is evil). (pure fighters and barbarians will meet the base attack bonus at this level.)

(personally if it were me I would have started and maintained a fighter becuase of all the bonus feats available to fighters, over a barbarian.)

10-02-2003, 12:43 PM	#2
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	IIRC, the answer is NO. The prerequisites based on skill levels, BAB etc. are all based on BASE skills and NOT the modified values taking items into account. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

10-02-2003, 12:47 PM	#3
Morgeruat Jack Burton Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: PA Age: 43 Posts: 5,421	does it take into account skill bonuses for stats (ie high dex bonus granting better hide ability)? __________________ "Any attempt to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, and I am just gonna snap." Knibb High Principal - Billy Madison

10-02-2003, 01:58 PM	#5
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	No problem Djinn. [img]smile.gif[/img] Morgeraut - I believe the answer to that is ALSO NO. It's BASE abilities that count IIRC. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

10-02-2003, 06:45 PM	#8
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	Multi-classing to a char class that has stealth is a good idea, but be sure you want to build in what ever class you take, as you can only have 3. There is no penalty, per se, for taking a non class skill, but it does cost 2 skill points, instead of one. You can counter the non skill costs with a higher int score, which will give you more skill points to use. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

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10-02-2003, 12:38 PM	#1
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	Ok question about getting Prestige Classes: I started a new character as a Dwarf Barbarian, he's chaotic evil and at level 3 right now. I just got the Cleave feat which is a prerequisite along with being Evil for becoming a Blackguard. The other prerequisite for this prestige class is having 5 in Hide skill. Right now i have 3 in hide (i got 2 in it at character creation, it's not a class skill, and one more at level 3) Now my question is if i was to buy and wear something like the Chain of Stealth (gives + 6 to Hide skill) or the Cloak of Elvenkind (+9 or something to Hide).. Would, when i level up to level 4, can i now be able to become a Blackguard even though if i took the armour or cloak off i wouldn't have the Hide prerequisite but with it on i do?? And would i want to do this if i can?

10-02-2003, 12:59 PM	#4
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	Thanks for the quick reply Mr. Foehammer! [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-02-2003, 04:13 PM	#6
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 54 Posts: 267	yup its only base abilities that count... btw, (I haven't done this but) the $ manual suggests simply saving your skill points when you level-up (by not placing skill points into skills) and then simply shovel in those saved skill points when you reach a level where you have the skill points neccesary AND the when the level allows that many skill points for that particular skill. For instance: I believe you can reach a skill level of 5 in stealth naturally by character level 2 regardless of class (though I'm not sure, I think that all classes allow stealth) - however if your a fighter and you have very few skill points to place into any skill at each level-up, (beyond of course character creation level 1), you might not have enough points to overcome the penalty to even place 1 skill point into steath. So instead what you do is save up the points until you reach a level where you have enough points to overcome the penalty. Alternativly you can of course multiclass to a stealth class to overcome the penalty.

10-02-2003, 04:33 PM	#7
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	Hmm that's interesting, thanks ScottG. I was worried about those penalties when at Level 2 i wasn't able to upgrade my Hide skill. Then at level 3 i could put one point into it. Any idea what the penalties are for upgrading a non-class skill? Maybe i should just multi-class my Barbarian at my fourth character level to a Rogue or Ranger and then at 5 go for the Blackguard (if possible, which i think it should be)! [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 10-02-2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

10-03-2003, 02:17 AM	#9
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	Well i could've leveled up to 4 and multi-classed to any class that has Hide as class skill and at next level (character 6) make it to Blackguard. What's the fastest to a Prestige Class anyone? What takes the longest? But i decided to stick it out as a Barbarian for awhile. I think there is a penalty there Robert because some level ups i can take a point in Hide and some i can't. At level 3 i was able to take one point in Hide when i had 4 skill points available; i should've been able to take 2. At level up to level 4, like it was for gaining second, i wasn't able to advance my Hide skill at all! (and per ScottG's post above i decided to not use any skill points so next level up i'll have 8 available, let's see if it works). If the penalty is every third level you can max out a non class skill then, if i stick with Barbarian, i should make 5 in Hide by ninth level and change to Blackguard at level 10. (if that is indeed how advancing in non class skills works, and holding back on using skill points at this level up doesn't work then... ). The prospect of a level 10 Dwarf Barbarian, and if i keep it up that far, level 10 Blackguard has me excited. I will have to come onto the Undermountain server to rip it up! [ 10-03-2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

10-03-2003, 02:03 PM	#10
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 54 Posts: 267	I think its a two skill point penalty for non-class skills. IE. you need 3 points (not 2) for one point in a non-class skill. So if you have a base of 2 skill points available to you every level (except level 1) and you plowed in enough points to have 2 points in stealth/hide at level 1 then you need 3 additional points in that skill. The skill level itself isn't a problem as noted above (level 2 should get you to 5). So if you get 2 skill points every level-up beyond level 1 then you will need to save your points at level 2. You'll spend 3 points at level 3 and save one point. This nets you 3 in hide skill at level 3. At level 4 you have 2 skill points again plus the one you saved allowing you to place one more point into hide skill, so at level 4 you have 4 points in hide skill. At level 5 you have to save both points. At level 6 you can place 3 points into hide to get your last point, (5 total points in hide), and still have one point left over to spend or save. At level 7 you can now dual to Blackguard (provided you meet the base attack bonus and your character is evil). (pure fighters and barbarians will meet the base attack bonus at this level.) (personally if it were me I would have started and maintained a fighter becuase of all the bonus feats available to fighters, over a barbarian.)

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