Burning the Flag or Burning the Freedom to do so?

[Olorin]

I'm glad that the Senate did not muster the 2/3rds for this to continue. Not that I'm worried that it stands a chance of getting ratified when it goes before all the states.

Not that I agree with people who burn the flag...but rather than take away their free speech, I'd rather exercise my free speech to discharge a fire extiginuisher where I see fit [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm actually more concerned with what happened during some of the immigration protests in LA. Students at one of the schools took down the US flag, and raised the Mexican flag (with the US flag upside down underneath it). From what I remember about flag symbolism, weren't they basically declaring that a foreign power had just taken control of a government building? Good thing that no one took them seriously.

[Arvon]

Can someone explain why that if you burn an American flag in public, you are put on TV as some sort of hero and you get your 15 minutes of fame. But if you burn the rainbow flag of the 'gays' or the flag of any nation that has screwed the US, you are thrown in jail so far they have to pipe sunlight to you.

[Bungleau]

Originally posted by True_Moose: A question though: what is the proper way to dispose of a tattered/wrecked flag? I personally would think that setting it aflame is more dignified then throwing it out under my empty milk cartons...

Ceremonial burning of the flag is the proper disposal. If you're unsure of what that means, contact your local VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) chapter, and they will be happy to take care of it properly for you.

As for the amendment... Feh. Pure political motivation, particularly since it immediately has to be watered down so that those properly disposing of a flag aren't breaking the law. And then it switches over to those who are burning flags saying that they're just "disposing" of them...

Glad it didn't pass. In general, I'm opposed to current constitutional amendments at the state and federal levels. They always seem to be some slipshod knee-jerk response to a current issue, and rarely seem to be related to real issues of concern.

That's not to say that I disagree with the current amendments. They're fine... and they were far more thought out than seems to be the rage today.

[Felix The Assassin]

So many things, so many meanings!

It's just seven red colored fabric stripes sewn together with six white fabric stripes, with a blue field holding fifty white stars. I mean, what's the big deal?

When a flag is no longer of dignified appearance and cannot be repaired, it should be destroyed in a dignified way (burned or sealed in a bag or box before being sent out for trash collection).

The U.S. flag is flown upside down only as a sign of distress. It can be a great insult to fly a flag upside down.


A little meaning:

* The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life.
* The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.
* The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veteran departing our ranks and who gave a portion of life for the defense of our country to attain peace throughout the world.
* The fourth fold represents our weaker nature; for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance.
* The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, “Our country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right, but it is still our country, right or wrong.”
* The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stand, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
* The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.
* The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor our mother, for whom it flies on Mother’s Day.
* The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood, for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great have been molded.
* The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since he or she was first born.
* The eleventh fold, in the eyes of Hebrew citizens, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
* The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost.
* When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, “In God We Trust.”

A bit more:

After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington and the sailors and marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges, and freedoms we enjoy today.

A little history:

"Old Glory." This famous name was coined by Captain Stephen Driver, a shipmaster of Salem, Massachusetts, in 1831. As he was leaving on one of his many voyages aboard the brig CHARLES DOGGETT - and this one would climax with the rescue of the mutineers of the BOUNTY - some friends presented him with a beautiful flag of twenty four stars. As the banner opened to the ocean breeze for the first time, he exclaimed "Old Glory!"

A bit more:

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by Reverend Francis Bellamy for use at the dedication of the World's Fair Grounds in Chicago on October 21, 1892. The wording was slightly altered in 1923 and 1924 by the First and Second National Flag Conferences. It was officially designated as the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag by Congress in 1945. The words "under God" were added in 1954 in a law signed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower.


I know where there is an unfurled U.S. Flag. I know where there are two folded and encased U.S. Flags. I know where there is a loaded .45 Colt.
Any Takers?

[Luther]

Felix, you're a nutter, and an archetypal centurion to boot [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Nightwing]

Flags only make people distance themselves from other people who are different from them. The day the world has no flags will be a glorious day indeed. Burn away, let the people be the meaning, not a piece of cloth.

[Luther]

Originally posted by Nightwing: let the people be the meaning, not a piece of cloth.

Which people? Where?

[Nightwing]

Anywhere.

[Luther]

Okey dokey...

[Timber Loftis]

Note that a constitutional amendment cannot be struck down as unconstitutional.

If they ever pass this retarded law it will be up to us to stop our states from ratifying it.

Salute it or burn it, in either case you are celebrating it, because it represents your freedom to do what you want. I think those who burn it in effagy are being ironically ignorant.

But if this law passes I'll have a party similar to yours Chewie, I'll be buying every flag I can get my hands on and making a big frikking bonfire in Grant Park. I ain't giving away no more freedom.

[ 06-29-2006, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]