Is This Art?

[/)eathKiller]

"the hypocrisy of society for allowing the killing of some animals for meat, but not others."

You don't pluck a chicken BEFORE you cutt its head off... That guy obviously wanted to go for the shock factor and he was just using other excuses to explain his behavior.

Killing animals is usually the first step before killing humans. The Son of Sam murderer killed dogs claiming that they were demons in disquise before moving on to people.

The people in the video's behavior can be explained easily if you look at their pasts...
One's father left him when he was 7 years old and then committed scuicide and then he became addicted to heroine. Another went to an art college, which just ain't natural to begin with [img]tongue.gif[/img] and his first film involved killing cooking and eating a chicken which he got an A on. He also made a "Dead Animals Disco" movie in which he danced around with dead animals set to music. He's the guy who'se releasing the film at the Antario film festival right now. The other guy who provided the torture equiptment just worked at the same courier that the other 2 did whent hey met... So i guess the lesson here is... Courrier services help to set up insaine freindships? *Shrug*

Anyway, the only cats that should be involved in any way shape or form of violence should be here!

[ 09-15-2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: /)eathKiller ]

[Peter Parker]

Beautiful. My mouth is dripping with saliva at the thought of sinking into soft, raw cat flesh.

[Dron_Cah]

Originally posted by /)eathKiller: One's father left him when he was 7 years old and then committed scuicide and then he became addicted to heroine.

I didn't think one could die, and then become addicted to herione! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

I'm assuming slaughterhouses quickly kill most animals like cows, etc. And if I'm wrong, and there is something going on that is not humane, then fine, show film footage to the public showing that, so that people can at least put a stop to it.

You are wrong, and I have some videos that prove it. Notably, Meet Your Meat and Eggribusiness. Slaughterhouses have not changed appreciably since Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle.

http://www.radioproject.org/archive/2001/2701.html

http://www.spcnetwork.com/mii/2001/010447.htm

http://www.slaughterhousecam.com

[LordKathen]

Excellent links Timber. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]
I love this:
"If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone
would be vegetarian."
Paul and Linda McCartney, 1996

Anyway, we have a local slaughter lot, called IBP (Iowa Beef Products), and over the years has been under close eye becouse of accusations of "slow death" kills, etc..
I do eat beef, but sometimes I feel hypocritical, becouse I get angry that there is even one at all. Stupid human feelings and all...

[Jaradu]

Is This Art?

Long answer: "Yes" with an "if..."
Short answer: "No" with a "but..."

Art is different in everybody's eyes. I am personally quite disgusted by this, but the artists obviously have strong points of views which I'm not prepared to disrespect... However, he is killing the cat - wrong in every nature (artistic or not). It's a tough question but I'd bet that the majority of people would be against this 'art'.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by LordKathen: Excellent links Timber. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img] I love this: "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian." Paul and Linda McCartney, 1996 Anyway, we have a local slaughter lot, called IBP (Iowa Beef Products), and over the years has been under close eye becouse of accusations of "slow death" kills, etc.. I do eat beef, but sometimes I feel hypocritical, becouse I get angry that there is even one at all. Stupid human feelings and all...

Slaughterhouses were religious temples for the majority of Eurasian civilisation's history . In the pre-christian Meditteranean you would take your beast to an altar and sacrifice it to your gods in return for divine favour. Afterward you would burn the entrails and offal, and eat the fat and meat. The killing and eating of an animal was a communal, spiritual affair which brought communities together and taught reverence of the harsh realities of a 'kill or be killed' world. Christianity, and its encouragment of guilt regarding the act of killing, changed all of this, and created the self-frustrated, hesitant, at-odds-with-itself pity culture we live in today. I'm not trying to derail the thread into a religious discussion (although I do think that one's spiritual views are inseperably linked to one's perception of art), I am merely saying that modern trend of 'compassionate empathy' toward suffering and death is not necessarily natural, nor is it necessarily a constructive thing.

My personal view is that people in 'modern Western' society find slaughter repugnant predominantly because they have hidden themselves away from it and have been psychologically detatched from its necessity. Whether your prey be plant or animal, you must kill to survive. Pity is a social poison in my eyes. Religious doctrines espousing the 'sanctity' of life encourage people to loathe who and what they are, to feel guilty about being alive, and about particpating in life's cycle of predation. Pity is unhealthy, to me.

[ 09-15-2004, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Dron_Cah]

Well, Heiro, I can agree with your post for the most part. The only thing is, religion, as it predominantly exists today, does encourage the sanctity of life, but does not espouse the evils of slaughter houses, or the act itself. Well, maybe Jews would protest pigs or whatever, but that would likely be based more on the kosher-thing. I think the pity you refer to people expressing shouldnt be blamed on the religion (not accusing, just mentioning!), but just a personal thing, varying from one person to the next.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Dron_Cah: The only thing is, religion, as it predominantly exists today, does encourage the sanctity of life, but does not espouse the evils of slaughter houses, or the act itself... I think the pity you refer to people expressing shouldnt be blamed on the religion (not accusing, just mentioning!), but just a personal thing, varying from one person to the next.

Mmmm. Yes, perhaps it was a rather overbearing judgment for me to make. Regardless, there is undue tention generated with regards to a moral doctrine espousing the need to 'love' and 'nurture' on one hand and the demands of our stomachs on the other wouldn't you say?

I see flesh as flesh, whatever the species. The process of life is what is important and artful to me, not the form. The human curse and blessing of abstract thought tempts us to separate ourselves from the system that gives us life. To not feel pity does not necessarily make one cruel.

[Ladyzekke]

Well for me, in my own personal thoughts, I do realize that animals are killed in slaughterhouses for food. And I'd be against any slaughterhouse that tortured animals and did not kill them quickly. Again, this whole "cat killing art" to me is far from the same thing, I don't see a connection there. If I were to watch (and I never would) the torture of Kensington, it would not do anything for me re thinking of not eating meat. And again, I agree, it takes a certain person to make that cat "art" documentary, and it's most likely not anyone we would ever want to have as our neighbor. No doubt many serial killers started out abusing and torturing animals.

No doubt if I had to kill an animal myself to eat, I'd probably go vegetarian, don't think I could do it. But who knows, if desparate, and starving, I may, but I certainly wouldn't torture the animal. Would kill it as quickly as I could. Not to mention, if every human decided to go vegetarian, would there be enough gardens to feed us all? Bet not, as crops depend on weather, which is never dependable. And, lastly, personally I don't eat meat every day, not because of any reason other than I just don't eat that much, and sometimes just like salad or pasta dishes without meat. But if I go a few days without meat, I start to feel weak and shakey, and only meat will take that away, and I'm only 100 pounds in weight. So I feel, probably because of my upbringing, maybe my heredity?, I could probably not survive well in life without some meat in my diet.

And I'm sorry, I grew up in farmlands, and cows and sheep are not as intelligent as cats and dogs, not to say it's fair, I mean in human aspects we certainly wouldn't tolerate mentally challenged people being treated wrongly, but it just is different regarding animals. Maybe it is not right, I dunno. I do recognize the double standard yes. No doubt intelligence re animals makes them more important to us humans.

But then again, we could all go even further, and say that plants are being killed too, and they have a life too. Who has ever picked a flower and felt bad that you just killed it's lifeline, or been weeding a garden and killed thousands of weeds, which deserve to live just like all the other plants. We could go on and on re this, where to draw the line? I dunno.

But torturing a cat is just sick, and it made not statement at all to me, again, just a few people who need to be jailed or see a psychiatrist pronto, trying to gain some kind of "fame" by being shocking. Despicable.