Views on EU enlargement

[johnny]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Luckily, people do have the ability to change over time. France and Germany for example. Through out the course of history, they've been at each others throats. In fact, Two World wars were the result of their hatred for each other (with WWII being the aftermath of WWI). Now, they're each others closest allies. I'm not saying things are simple. But such changes are not impossible. Only improbably. Besides, we don't have to become 'One Europe' the work closely together. Everyone can keep their national identity.

That's not quite true. Not France and Germany have become close allies, but Chirac and Schroeder, because they have mutual interrests, and more likely, they were driven into eachothers arms by the US. I'm pretty sure there's still a lot of anti German sentiments among the common people in France. But then again, anti German sentiments are not exceptional in Europe.

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: Luckily, people do have the ability to change over time. France and Germany for example. Through out the course of history, they've been at each others throats. In fact, Two World wars were the result of their hatred for each other (with WWII being the aftermath of WWI). Now, they're each others closest allies. I'm not saying things are simple. But such changes are not impossible. Only improbably. Besides, we don't have to become 'One Europe' the work closely together. Everyone can keep their national identity.

That's not quite true. Not France and Germany have become close allies, but Chirac and Schroeder, because they have mutual interrests, and more likely, they were driven into eachothers arms by the US. I'm pretty sure there's still a lot of anti German sentiments among the common people in France. But then again, anti German sentiments are not exceptional in Europe. [/QUOTE]German/French aggression was one of the most important reasons for the existence of the EU. After two world wars france was naturally nervous, so the solution was the European Coal and Steel Community. Steel being the most important ingredient for building an army, the argument was that if they both depended on the other for its supply, then war could never arise. And it seems to have worked. Of course Chirac and Shroeder were driven into each other by the US, but Chirac is a grizzled veteran of the European political scene and the same goes for Schroeder in a lesser sense and as such, it was never going to change their political opinions much.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by johnny: [QB] You can't compare the US with Europe, not in any way. The Europeans who went there, all shared the same dream, and together they created what the US is today.

African Americans came from Europe with the same dream did they? More like a nightmare Johnny.

Europeans have been at eachothers throats for as long as europe exists, varying from minor annoyances, to pure hatred. I don't believe there are two states in the US who have the same relationship as Greece and Turkey, just to name one. But there are more, such as the Croats and the Serbs. Those people don't just not like eachother, they are willing to kill eachother. Can you name two factions in the US who are willing to go that far ?

Blacks vs Whites maybe? Italian mafia vs Hispanics perhaps? Crown Heights riots? (Black vs Jew)

The divisions are all jumbled amongst each other. Socio-economic. Racial. Politicial. They don't run across political borders like states, but within them. The same Serbs and Croats live alongside each other in the US.

[johnny]

I was talking about the European settlers Yorick, not the black slaves who they went to collect later to pick their cotton, or the Asians they needed to build their railroads, purely the European settlers were on my mind. And they all had the same dream.

And you want to compare a few riots and some gangfights with the brutal civil wars we've had in some parts of Europe ? Sorry mate, that's not exactly the same thing. The Watts riots were bad, but they stopped after a few days, the ethnic cleansings in Bosnia went on for a long period, and there's still troublesome news coming from those regions. Any comparisons between the two continents aren't realistic, except that most of us are bloodrelated. But it ends there.