How can being "Liberal" be anti-patriotic?

[Moiraine]

About that kind of question, I recently read a very interesting article here. It is about the Iraqi war, and some people may argue that it is somewhat partial , but I believe it nonetheless highlights interesting points.

Basically the summary of what I understood of it is that for all sides it is essential to convince the U.S. citizens that they are acting according to the founding values of the American nation. Hence, possibly, the accusations of being "anti-americanism" and "treason" popping now and then. It is just the classic political dance, really.

[ 07-16-2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Moiraine ]

[Azred]

I think Ms. Coulter needs to take another look at her dictionary in order to re-learn what "treason" really is, because it certainly isn't the desire to make sure that elected officials are held accountable for their actions or that our current course of action may not be the most wise. She knows her audience and is simply catering to their tastes, nothing more.
"The Democrats should go away"? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] I have news for her--both parties should disappear. Neither of them have the true long-term best interest of the country at heart, only proving the other side to be wrong.

As far as the question regarding whether or not America is an empire.... If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. Yes, we are an empire; it is about time someone finally said it.

So what?

Suppose a country suffers a regime change, for whatever reason. Would you, as a citizen of that country, rather have America is charge or some other nation like China? I know which one I would choose.
I am always a rationalist, which means I strive always to see things as they are. Having said that, to use that trite phrase America is the "city on a hill". Were every country in the world to be like America, then there would be a lot of people with jobs and the freedom to live their own life as they see fit.
True, there are problems in America and the way we do things; no one is perfect. Like I said, I am a realist. However, I still think this is the best place to live and I, for one, thoroughly enjoy the fact that I am from America.

See, I'm not rabid like Ms. Coulter. People have every right not to like America, but they really should try it before they knock it. Besides, I find others' dislike of America both puzzling and irrelevant. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Azred: Having said that, to use that trite phrase America is the "city on a hill". Were every country in the world to be like America, then there would be a lot of people with jobs and the freedom to live their own life as they see fit.

Can we say this for all first-world "democracies" and psuedo-democracies, including France, England, Germany, Norway, Japan, Aussie, Canada, et al, ad nauseum??

Jay Leno's best joke tonight: "They published a list of nations that dislike the USA -- it's called The World Atlas."

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Azred: Having said that, to use that trite phrase America is the "city on a hill". Were every country in the world to be like America, then there would be a lot of people with jobs and the freedom to live their own life as they see fit.

Can we say this for all first-world "democracies" and psuedo-democracies, including France, England, Germany, Norway, Japan, Aussie, Canada, et al, ad nauseum??

Jay Leno's best joke tonight: "They published a list of nations that dislike the USA -- it's called The World Atlas."
[/QUOTE]You can in Canada. I've been across Europe and South East Asia and in most of the places there it seemed to me like you could as well. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It's a funny joke, i like Jay Leno's monologues most of the time.

[ 07-17-2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Djinn Raffo ]

[johnny]

originally posted by Timber Loftis Jay Leno's best joke tonight: "They published a list of nations that dislike the USA -- it's called The World Atlas."

Bad joke. How can a nation dislike the US ? It's a group of people in a nation that don't like the US. In the same nation there will also be numerous people who do like the US.

But then again, It's Leno's statement. One of the most ignorant person's i've ever seen on my TV screen. I can't believe he and Letterman are always fighting, they have so much incommon.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Can we say this for all first-world "democracies" and psuedo-democracies, including France, England, Germany, Norway, Japan, Aussie, Canada, et al, ad nauseum??

For the most part, yes. However, the other nations you list don't seem to have the negative reputation that we Americans enjoy.

I wonder what would happen if we suddenly stopped any and all foreign aid, quit messing around with other nations' governments/politics, and simply engaged in free trade with anyone willing to trade? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[mysticelt]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Can we say this for all first-world "democracies" and psuedo-democracies, including France, England, Germany, Norway, Japan, Aussie, Canada, et al, ad nauseum??

For the most part, yes. However, the other nations you list don't seem to have the negative reputation that we Americans enjoy.

Pick one or the other!
I wonder what would happen if we suddenly stopped any and all foreign aid, quit messing around with other nations' governments/politics, and simply engaged in free trade with anyone willing to trade? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Pick one or the other!


free trade = is messing around with politics. Our money is our biggest weapon. We buy stuff we don't need and tariff stuff we do.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I can't stand the old "your unpatriotic for having a dissenting veiwpoint" argument. It is a lame and unintellectual practice that she takes to the extreme.

I always find it very strange that people say things like this in a multi-party system. I would be very surprised if she agreed with everything (or anything! ) Clinton did while he was in office - he was one of those terrible Democrats that she disagrees with so strongly after all. Surely she held a dissenting viewpoint then - how treacherous of her!

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: I can't stand the old "your unpatriotic for having a dissenting veiwpoint" argument. It is a lame and unintellectual practice that she takes to the extreme.

I always find it very strange that people say things like this in a multi-party system. I would be very surprised if she agreed with everything (or anything! ) Clinton did while he was in office - he was one of those terrible Democrats that she disagrees with so strongly after all. Surely she held a dissenting viewpoint then - how treacherous of her! [/QUOTE]No you mis-understand her point. You are only a traitor if you disagree with the Rupublican viewpoint of the world. Regardless of who is in the White House.