Olympic Pairs Figure Skating (sorry I need to vent) - Page 5

Ryanamur · 02-13-2002, 02:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:

But, to play devil's advocate, there is a good chance that Canada had tried to work a deal of thier own to overcome Russia's stronghold on the sport. They finally have some skaters that are good enough to challenge the Russians. but it never hurts to have a back-up plan. This is pure speculation on my part, but seems likely enough. (No offense, Ryanamur, I still think the Canadians were blatantly robbed).

No offence taken. In fact, it's very much possible that the Canadian judge made a pact to bar the Russian. Regardless if it's the case or not, I think that the gold should have gone to Canada. It's undeniable that reforms must take place to change the judging within the ISU.

On another note, I saw to reports lately. One was a Russian sports broadcaster who's been covering the Olympics since the early 1980's. He blatantly said the gold should have gone to Canada.

The second was more stuning though. An ASU judge said that to beat the Russian in pairs, the Canadians would have had to perform twice better than what the Russians are capable of. How bad is that? You either beat them or you don't. Now, let's imagine this: Men's Final Hockey. In order to beat Canada the team from pool B must have at least twice the amount of goals!!!! It makes no sense!

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ]

Cerek the Barbaric · 02-13-2002, 04:43 PM

Even more impressive is the story on ESPN.com today. Apparantly, 3 Olympic judges actually approached the local reporters immediately after the competition and declared the incident an Outrage!

Here's the link to the story....

Ice Skating competition was "fixed" by Russian and French judges

Grojlach · 02-13-2002, 04:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric:
Even more impressive is the story on ESPN.com today. Apparantly, 3 Olympic judges actually approached the local reporters immediately after the competition and declared the incident an Outrage!

Ridiculous. Whether they have a point or not, there are bound to be some protocols and rules for these Olympic judges they have to follow... Protocols they've violated, so it seems.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

Grojlach · 02-13-2002, 05:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
I will agree that, personally, I believe figure skating is more art than sport.

Obviously, this scandal isn't the end of the world, and as the article I linked to pointed out, it certainly wasn't the first time something like this has happened, but does that make it "unworthy" of discussion? Is this any less important to talk about than anything else on this board?

Is this more important than people dying in a plane crash? No, but no one implied it was more important. Are roll playing games and joke threads more important? No, but that's what we do here. Play around, joke, and discuss. What's important to some may not be important to others, buy that doesn't mean it isn't important at all. Because people cheat anyway we shouldn't expect more?

BTW, the point was that there appears to have been an agreement prior to the event to determine the outcome. If the judges aren't going to, at least, wait until the competition to decide their scores, why bother?

No, I wasn't talking about this thread or Ironworks in particular, but a few days ago, no one cared at all about figure skating; now however it seems to dictate major news channels and newspapers, as if it's the biggest schandal ever. Which is nonsense. But I have my doubts if this particular case would have been blown out of proportions the same way if it was a team from a big and popular country unfairly beating a team from a very small and insignificant one...
Oh well, I think this is just what people call "silly season".

Ronn_Bman · 02-13-2002, 06:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Grojlach:

No, I wasn't talking about this thread or Ironworks in particular, but a few days ago, no one cared at all about figure skating; now however it seems to dictate major news channels and newspapers, as if it's the biggest schandal ever. Which is nonsense. But I have my doubts if this particular case would have been blown out of proportions the same way if it was a team from a big and popular country unfairly beating a team from a very small and insignificant one...
Oh well, I think this is just what people call "silly season".

It is silly season...lol!

And you are right, I could care less about figure skating, but I think given the blatant nature of this decision, I would have been pissed, even if it were the UAE losing to the US. The Russian guy almost fell down, while the Canadian team appeared flawless.

I saw the Olympic reporter for a major paper comment on the news that several points could actually be argued in favor of the Russians deserving the gold, but admits his article, released after the event, said the decision was ridiculous.

Grojlach · 02-13-2002, 06:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

I saw the Olympic reporter for a major paper comment on the news that several points could actually be argued in favor of the Russians deserving the gold, but admits his article, released after the event, said the decision was ridiculous.

Well, I'm not arguing with you over that, though...

It's just that there have been many instances in the history of sports in which it was clear that the arbiters were biased in one way or another, but never were people, officials and media making such a big fuss out of it as is the case now, especially considering we're talking about a relatively "small" sport like figure skating (small as in normal media coverage and attention). That's what surprising me the most. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Lord of Alcohol · 02-13-2002, 07:01 PM

I dont give a damn about figure skating either, but plenty of people do! From EVERYTHING I've read Canada got robbed. For those skaters to have been robbed of a victory sucks. Hail Canada I say!

Grojlach · 02-13-2002, 07:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol:
I dont give a damn about figure skating either, but plenty of people do! From EVERYTHING I've read Canada got robbed. For those skaters to have been robbed of a victory sucks. Hail Canada I say!

Robbed from the Gold medal? yes. But instead they get world fame (way more than they would have had with a "normal" victory), sympathy from people all over the world who never gave a damn about figure skating before (and still never will from now on either

) and lots of cash. Heck, that article Cerek was linking to was probably right about them becoming millionnaires within 24 hours after the defeat... Wouldn't surprise me if they get their own talkshow, cerial, clothing line, heck, they probably are selling the rights for an exclusive movie made out of this already...

Perhaps they owe those "cheating" jury members a big "thank you" instead, looking at it from that perspective...

Pangur Ban · 02-14-2002, 02:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
I will agree that, personally, I believe figure skating is more art than sport.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

I have to respond to this one ...

Ronn_Bman, have you ever ice skated? The "art" is easy, compared to the amount of work needed to master the technical skills of jumps, turns, and spins, and footwork. It has been quoted that only 1 in 1000 skaters who have formal lessons, will *ever* learn to do a single rotation axel jump ( let alone a triple !! )

My wife, myself, and most of our friends are skaters, and we have all completed, or are still competing. I've watched fellow skaters practice 3 to 6 times a week, for 6 months, to learn a program that may only last just 3 minutes ... -

Would you call golf a sport? I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't. But if a golf pro has a few bad shots at least they get a chance to catch up. Ice skating? You only get *one* chance to get it right on the night.

Skaters also pay a toll for the skills they learn. Ankle, wrist, and knee injuries are commonplace, not to mention the countless falls skaters endure while trying to master jumps. In seven years, my wife and I have 4 broken bones between us as our "tally", plus numerous other minor injuries.

The true figure skating competitor, having spent years of constant practice learning the elements, then skates in such a fashion as to make them look effortless and easy.

Pang [img]graemlins/cat3.gif[/img]

(Pangur's wife walks in, reads post, and takes over keyboard)

Ice skating is one of the rarest of sports that combines both technical skill and artistic skill. Although it may look namby pamby when you watch it, isn't it a mark of how good a competitor is by making it look so easy? ( Mrs Pangur Ban )

Ronn_Bman · 02-14-2002, 07:50 AM

Pangur, I don't doubt it's very intensive, and I know those involved in skating at this level dedicate their lives to it, but still, to me personally, it's more art form than sport.

02-13-2002, 02:56 PM	#41
Ryanamur Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Montréal, Canada Age: 49 Posts: 1,763	quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: But, to play devil's advocate, there is a good chance that Canada had tried to work a deal of thier own to overcome Russia's stronghold on the sport. They finally have some skaters that are good enough to challenge the Russians. but it never hurts to have a back-up plan. This is pure speculation on my part, but seems likely enough. (No offense, Ryanamur, I still think the Canadians were blatantly robbed). No offence taken. In fact, it's very much possible that the Canadian judge made a pact to bar the Russian. Regardless if it's the case or not, I think that the gold should have gone to Canada. It's undeniable that reforms must take place to change the judging within the ISU. On another note, I saw to reports lately. One was a Russian sports broadcaster who's been covering the Olympics since the early 1980's. He blatantly said the gold should have gone to Canada. The second was more stuning though. An ASU judge said that to beat the Russian in pairs, the Canadians would have had to perform twice better than what the Russians are capable of. How bad is that? You either beat them or you don't. Now, let's imagine this: Men's Final Hockey. In order to beat Canada the team from pool B must have at least twice the amount of goals!!!! It makes no sense! [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Ryanamur ] __________________ An idiot will only play Russian roulette with an automatic pistol! Thank God they only do it once! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" />

02-13-2002, 04:43 PM	#42
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	Even more impressive is the story on ESPN.com today. Apparantly, 3 Olympic judges actually approached the local reporters immediately after the competition and declared the incident an Outrage! Here's the link to the story.... Ice Skating competition was "fixed" by Russian and French judges __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

02-13-2002, 04:48 PM	#43
Grojlach Zartan Join Date: May 2, 2001 Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum Age: 43 Posts: 5,281	quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: Even more impressive is the story on ESPN.com today. Apparantly, 3 Olympic judges actually approached the local reporters immediately after the competition and declared the incident an Outrage! Ridiculous. Whether they have a point or not, there are bound to be some protocols and rules for these Olympic judges they have to follow... Protocols they've violated, so it seems. [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Grojlach ] __________________ [url]\"http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/Grobbel/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.denness.net/rpi/username/Grobbel\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

02-13-2002, 05:19 PM	#44
Grojlach Zartan Join Date: May 2, 2001 Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum Age: 43 Posts: 5,281	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I will agree that, personally, I believe figure skating is more art than sport. Obviously, this scandal isn't the end of the world, and as the article I linked to pointed out, it certainly wasn't the first time something like this has happened, but does that make it "unworthy" of discussion? Is this any less important to talk about than anything else on this board? Is this more important than people dying in a plane crash? No, but no one implied it was more important. Are roll playing games and joke threads more important? No, but that's what we do here. Play around, joke, and discuss. What's important to some may not be important to others, buy that doesn't mean it isn't important at all. Because people cheat anyway we shouldn't expect more? BTW, the point was that there appears to have been an agreement prior to the event to determine the outcome. If the judges aren't going to, at least, wait until the competition to decide their scores, why bother? No, I wasn't talking about this thread or Ironworks in particular, but a few days ago, no one cared at all about figure skating; now however it seems to dictate major news channels and newspapers, as if it's the biggest schandal ever. Which is nonsense. But I have my doubts if this particular case would have been blown out of proportions the same way if it was a team from a big and popular country unfairly beating a team from a very small and insignificant one... Oh well, I think this is just what people call "silly season". __________________ [url]\"http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/Grobbel/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.denness.net/rpi/username/Grobbel\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

02-13-2002, 06:17 PM	#45
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Grojlach: No, I wasn't talking about this thread or Ironworks in particular, but a few days ago, no one cared at all about figure skating; now however it seems to dictate major news channels and newspapers, as if it's the biggest schandal ever. Which is nonsense. But I have my doubts if this particular case would have been blown out of proportions the same way if it was a team from a big and popular country unfairly beating a team from a very small and insignificant one... Oh well, I think this is just what people call "silly season". It is silly season...lol! And you are right, I could care less about figure skating, but I think given the blatant nature of this decision, I would have been pissed, even if it were the UAE losing to the US. The Russian guy almost fell down, while the Canadian team appeared flawless. I saw the Olympic reporter for a major paper comment on the news that several points could actually be argued in favor of the Russians deserving the gold, but admits his article, released after the event, said the decision was ridiculous. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

02-13-2002, 06:32 PM	#46
Grojlach Zartan Join Date: May 2, 2001 Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum Age: 43 Posts: 5,281	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I saw the Olympic reporter for a major paper comment on the news that several points could actually be argued in favor of the Russians deserving the gold, but admits his article, released after the event, said the decision was ridiculous. Well, I'm not arguing with you over that, though... It's just that there have been many instances in the history of sports in which it was clear that the arbiters were biased in one way or another, but never were people, officials and media making such a big fuss out of it as is the case now, especially considering we're talking about a relatively "small" sport like figure skating (small as in normal media coverage and attention). That's what surprising me the most. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ [url]\"http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/Grobbel/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.denness.net/rpi/username/Grobbel\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

02-13-2002, 07:01 PM	#47
Lord of Alcohol Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Charlotte,NC Age: 60 Posts: 4,570	I dont give a damn about figure skating either, but plenty of people do! From EVERYTHING I've read Canada got robbed. For those skaters to have been robbed of a victory sucks. Hail Canada I say! __________________ No

02-13-2002, 07:35 PM	#48
Grojlach Zartan Join Date: May 2, 2001 Location: Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum Age: 43 Posts: 5,281	quote: Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: I dont give a damn about figure skating either, but plenty of people do! From EVERYTHING I've read Canada got robbed. For those skaters to have been robbed of a victory sucks. Hail Canada I say! Robbed from the Gold medal? yes. But instead they get world fame (way more than they would have had with a "normal" victory), sympathy from people all over the world who never gave a damn about figure skating before (and still never will from now on either ) and lots of cash. Heck, that article Cerek was linking to was probably right about them becoming millionnaires within 24 hours after the defeat... Wouldn't surprise me if they get their own talkshow, cerial, clothing line, heck, they probably are selling the rights for an exclusive movie made out of this already... Perhaps they owe those "cheating" jury members a big "thank you" instead, looking at it from that perspective... __________________ [url]\"http://www.audioscrobbler.com/user/Grobbel/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.denness.net/rpi/username/Grobbel\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

02-14-2002, 02:53 AM	#49
Pangur Ban Avatar Join Date: June 3, 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 64 Posts: 569	quote: Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I will agree that, personally, I believe figure skating is more art than sport. [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] I have to respond to this one ... Ronn_Bman, have you ever ice skated? The "art" is easy, compared to the amount of work needed to master the technical skills of jumps, turns, and spins, and footwork. It has been quoted that only 1 in 1000 skaters who have formal lessons, will ever learn to do a single rotation axel jump ( let alone a triple !! ) My wife, myself, and most of our friends are skaters, and we have all completed, or are still competing. I've watched fellow skaters practice 3 to 6 times a week, for 6 months, to learn a program that may only last just 3 minutes ... - Would you call golf a sport? I don't think there is anyone who wouldn't. But if a golf pro has a few bad shots at least they get a chance to catch up. Ice skating? You only get one chance to get it right on the night. Skaters also pay a toll for the skills they learn. Ankle, wrist, and knee injuries are commonplace, not to mention the countless falls skaters endure while trying to master jumps. In seven years, my wife and I have 4 broken bones between us as our "tally", plus numerous other minor injuries. The true figure skating competitor, having spent years of constant practice learning the elements, then skates in such a fashion as to make them look effortless and easy. Pang [img]graemlins/cat3.gif[/img] (Pangur's wife walks in, reads post, and takes over keyboard) Ice skating is one of the rarest of sports that combines both technical skill and artistic skill. Although it may look namby pamby when you watch it, isn't it a mark of how good a competitor is by making it look so easy? ( Mrs Pangur Ban ) __________________ Not enough time to care ....

02-14-2002, 07:50 AM	#50
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	Pangur, I don't doubt it's very intensive, and I know those involved in skating at this level dedicate their lives to it, but still, to me personally, it's more art form than sport. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

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