smoking

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Dron_Cah: Yeah, but then you cant say "you walk into the smokey cantina" anymore in role-playing! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Yeah, that's my only arguement.

This is a ban on smoking, not on special effects. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[inkexcursions]

To whoever wants to listen: Banning smoking in resturants/bars is one more freedom that we have to give up. We said when they passed the helmet law, that next would be the seatbelt law. Citizens said no way could they make them wear a seatbelt, it was their choice. You know what happened! I dont smoke. But I do own a tattoo shop and I will let my customers smoke anywhere but in the booths. They havent passed it here in Berea, KY yet, but it is coming.
If people just give in to the small things, soon it will be like living in a dictatorship. Isnt that what living in the USA is about; having freedom?!

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by inkexcursions: To whoever wants to listen: Banning smoking in resturants/bars is one more freedom that we have to give up. We said when they passed the helmet law, that next would be the seatbelt law. Citizens said no way could they make them wear a seatbelt, it was their choice. You know what happened! I dont smoke. But I do own a tattoo shop and I will let my customers smoke anywhere but in the booths. They havent passed it here in Berea, KY yet, but it is coming. If people just give in to the small things, soon it will be like living in a dictatorship. Isnt that what living in the USA is about; having freedom?!

Are you free to steal another person's belongings? Are you free to kill someone just because they annoyed you? If the world were completely free, you would be free to infringe on my freedoms. If the world were completely free, there would be no courts and no crime, because nothing would be illegal. Laws are put in place to protect the freedoms of all, but in doing so another freedom has to budge. You are free to feel safe on the roads, but only because every driver isn't free to drive whereever and however they want to. With this ban in place, I will be free to go to a restaraurant and eat without having to put up with smoke, but only because other people are not free to smoke there.
It would not be like a dictatorship at all. To impose a dictatorship, there aren't hundreds of bans. There are instead allowances. In the free world, you are free to do anything unless the law prohibits it. In a dictatorship, you would not be able to breath unless the law allowed it.

[aleph_null1]

Originally posted by LennonCook: To impose a dictatorship, there aren't hundreds of bans. There are instead allowances. In the free world, you are free to do anything unless the law prohibits it. In a dictatorship, you would not be able to breath unless the law allowed it.

Yes! Exactly! *clapping*

Originally posted by inkexcursions: We said when they passed the helmet law, that next would be the seatbelt law.

First of all, welcome to IW, inkexcursions!

What makes the laws you mention offensive is that they protect one from oneself. Unless you argue that they're designed to protect children from irresponsible parents ... but even that's on the questionable side.

In any case, these smoking restrictions are designed right along Mills: to keep some people from harming others with their actions. Assuming that second-hand smoke is at least fairly likely to cause harm -- I'm no scientist -- to abridge smoking in public places is morally permissible, if perhaps not compulsory.

[wellard]

Welcome to Ironworks [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] inkexcursions

Of course this thread was about the new proposed bans in bars / pubs in NSW Australia. The use of Cigarettes has already been banned for over 4 years in all cafe / restaurants to great success.

Now of course if you would like to see some examples of banning in the USA answer me this.

Are you allowed to smoke on aircraft?

How about smoking in large (35+ seats) restaurants in New York?

Is there some constitutional amendment that gives someone the right to pollute another persons breathing air in the USA? No I did not think so [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]

Smoking bans in public are also in place in several other countries. In the 1940's nearly 75% of people smoked and the no smokers where the abused minority [img]tongue.gif[/img] now of course the number of smokers has dropped to 25% and falling fast. Even in my lifetime smokers used to be the majority so I find it amusing when I hear people whinge about smoker’s rights

It is an inevitable law given the damage done to workers and non-smokers. You may not like it but the fact is these laws are coming in thick and fast. Weather the laws are driven by lawyers and insurance companies or by politicians that understand one simple rule ...In a democracy the majority win

[johnny]

Originally posted by LennonCook: quote: Originally posted by Landon Contressior: You guys just dont get it, do you? Smokers will live on forever, Weed is outlawed, and people still smoke it, besides who is going to say, you can't enjoy a cigerette. No one will because it is a state of happiness for some people. It calms nerves for some of us, and releives that stress that only nicotine can cure. So just give up the "ban smoking" postion.

Which is why the smoking bans are for indoor public places only. It's the only place where it can be really policed. It also happens to be the place where it matters the most. Outdoors, it disipates quite quickly, meaning it isn't much of a risk to anyone unless either a) They're the one smoking or b) The smoke is blown right on them. Inside, it lingers for hours, meaning it's a danger to anyone who so much as walks in. [/QUOTE]Nope, it's not indoor public places only, i'm not allowed to smoke on the trainplatforms anymore either, and that's out in the open air. Well, there's a small piece where the smokers can flock together, but i refuse to go stand there.

[Winter Wolf]

I am a smoker. Having said that:
I do find it disgusting (why smoke? Two words: *nicotine addict*), and totally agree with banning it in places that serve real food. Bars and clubs I think should be allowed their preference. Been to both smoking and nonsmoking bars and clubs, both have their merits, after a fashion (I generally don't bother with either of them anymore, they all got a bit "samey" after a while).
As for chipping away at our little freedoms, you all have to keep in mind: that's how it starts. Life is about a lot of little things, and every time you let some "minor detail" slide, it adds to the pile. I'm not that old (27 in a couple weeks), but I have a hard time reconciling "the land of the free and the home of the brave" (yes, I'm from the US) with a lot of what I have seen in the past five years.
Guess I better leave it at that before I really start ranting, and off topic at that.

[slicer15]

Hm, on the subject on smoking, I read an interesting article a little while ago about a smoker who was trying to give up, but didn't have the willpower, and was tempted successfully evertime he walked into a cornershop or petrol station.

He said as long as cigarettes are as easy as chocolate or water to buy, he wouldn't be able to stop, and as such supported a full ban of it everywhere.

I'm not sure I support that, but it's another interesting angle for the ban. It may help people give up smoking if they really want to. Of course, even if it is banned indoors or public places, cigarretes are still really easy to buy.

I myself heavily dislike smoking. I can't stand the smell or smoke, and I find that even in the non-smoking areas of small restaurants the smoke wafts over anyway. Then there are the health implications. I just couldn't imagine doing purposeful damage to my body.

[Timber Loftis]

The only rule I have about smoking that I think should be implemented universally is that if you're doing it after sex you need to.... slow.... down.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by johnny: Nope, it's not indoor public places only, i'm not allowed to smoke on the trainplatforms anymore either, and that's out in the open air. Well, there's a small piece where the smokers can flock together, but i refuse to go stand there.

Is this a nation-wide thing, or only on the two or three platforms that you go to regularly? It could quite easily be the inititive of the train companies more than a law that's been passed. But the one small place to smoke sounds rather counter-intuitive to me... while it can be ensured that the smokers will only smoke there, how can they hope to keep all of the smoke there?

Originally posted by slicer15: Hm, on the subject on smoking, I read an interesting article a little while ago about a smoker who was trying to give up, but didn't have the willpower, and was tempted successfully evertime he walked into a cornershop or petrol station. He said as long as cigarettes are as easy as chocolate or water to buy, he wouldn't be able to stop, and as such supported a full ban of it everywhere.

He has a good point. If there were controls placed on the sale of cigarettes to a similar level that is on alcohol, it could help to solve alot of the problem. Alot (probably just over half) of the smokers on the streets here are teenagers trying to look good (oblivious, ofcourse, to the fact that they don't look good). Now, how do teenagers buy cigarettes? Why do they buy cigarettes and not alcohol? The only answer is because cigarettes are easier to buy than alcohol. They are available from anywhere you can buy milk, bread, and newspapers. Alcohol is only available in licenced places. If those licenced places don't ask for ID, and sell a strong beer to a 16 year old, they could loose their license. If, on the other hand, a corner shop sells a packet of cigarettes to a 15-year-old, noone much notices. If this were different, that there was less opportunity for a teenager to get cigarettes, there would be less smokers on the streets... there would also be less people who smoke later in life because of a lasting addiction.

I find that even in the non-smoking areas of small restaurants the smoke wafts over anyway.

From numerous joke threads/emails/sites: having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool.