tactics

Tyrion · 10-01-2003, 01:27 PM

I have always had major problems with beholders and mind flayers.
I was too lazy to learn how to beat them when last i played through so i either cheated or came back at higher level. now when i play a new game all over i plan not to cheat but i really need some help with these baddies.

beholders just seem to overwhelm me with their rays and mindflayers just seem to dominate me or simply kill me...haven´t even thought of installing the enhancements for them included in the tactics mod

glad for any tips and hints!

Faceman · 10-01-2003, 01:45 PM

Well, there's cheesy stuff and there's genuine tactics what do you need?
cheesy:
Beholders: Use the Shield of Balduran (available at the Adventurer's Mart from Deirdre, bonus merchant) or the Cloak of Mirroring (also known as the Cloak of cheese)
Mind Flayers: block the doorway with an invisible char and kill them with missiles
.
actual tactics:
Mind Flayers: Cast chaotic comman on your party and use mainly missile weapons. Have your tanks drink potions of genius (INT bonus) and dispose of the brainsuckers QUICKLY!. You can also use a single ranged character with boots of speed/haste + free action + charm protection to "circlestrafe" them with a bow or a throwing axe/hammer/dart.
Beholders: protect your party as well as possible and hammer them down quickly. Stay out of the way with your weaker spellcasters as they won't break their MR anyway and cast spell protections like Spell turning or Globe of Invulnerability. If present kill Elder Orbs first because they can cast Imprisonment.

edit: connection broke down only half got posted

[ 10-01-2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

Xen · 10-01-2003, 01:54 PM

Beholders:Shield Of Balduran

Mind Flayers:True Sight,Potions Of Genius,Chaotic Commands,Ring Of Free Action... They have high MR(Magic Resistance) but Sunfire igonres MR. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Skeleton Warriors are also handy.

Tyrion · 10-01-2003, 02:06 PM

but mind flayeers seem to just kill you suddenly, how do they do it. i haven´t been able to find a spell description... by the way, where can i find that cloak? don´t really know where it is

Xen · 10-01-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrion:
but mind flayeers seem to just kill you suddenly, how do they do it. i haven´t been able to find a spell description... by the way, where can i find that cloak? don´t really know where it is

They drain your INT score.

Every hit means -5 to INT score and when you come to 0... you are doomed!
Also PfMW(Protection from Magical Weapons) also protects you for 4 rounds!

Cloak of Mirroring is in Sahuagin City. If you went with Seamon you come to the place...

Some call it:Fish city...

SillySorcerer · 10-01-2003, 02:11 PM

For mind flayers, I second the Chaotic Commands spell and skeleton warriors strategy. The mind flayers level was kicking my arse until I changed tactics. The Beholders I still havn't completely figured out-- I used to summon a bunch of creatures to serve as a distraction, cast haste on my party, have the warriors rush in with weapons flailing and have the spellcasters cast the most devstating area effect spells they possessed-- And I frequently got annihilated. Lately, though, I have been giving my cleric the best equipment available (free action, mind barrior, etc.), having him cast globe of blades spell (or whatever it is called), and then attack by himself while the rest of the party uses ranged weapons. Usually, he can whip several beholders all on his own. Not always, though, 'cause they're tough.

[ 10-01-2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: SillySorcerer ]

Faceman · 10-01-2003, 02:11 PM

Mind Flayers have the ability to drain Intelligence (Devour Brain). They will drain 3INT each hit (Melee only) and if you have 0 INT you are dead (same goes for strenghth draining or level draining). So if you stay away from them and use missiles nobody will get hurt. The effect is only temporary so wait for it to expire before you go to fight more Illithids.
In BGT (mod) there is a new item (don't know if it is from another mod actually) which negates INT drain. This is overpowered I think as it makes the dreaded Mind Flayer the laughstock of the well-equipped adventurer (as does the original Cloak of Cheese with the Beholder).

IronDragon · 10-01-2003, 05:42 PM

I know my techniques are often cheesey but they do work.

Beholders: to deal with these nasties you need either the Staff of the Magi or a large collection of potions of invisibility, and a fully charged wand of cloudkill. (boots of speed are helpful here as well)

Turn off your AI and sequester the majority of your party well away from the action and make your mage invisible wither with the staff or with potions (the staff works much better.) sneak up on your party of beholders and gauths, when you get them in sight back up just enough for the fog of war to obscure them, preferable near a corner and sick a cloudkill on them. If you have the staff re-install it before the cloud explodes and the beholders will have no way to target you. If you are using the potion method scoot around the corner as fast as possible drinking a new potion of invisibility as you go. The beholders may wander around searching for their attacker but will not spot you as long as you remain invisible, if they can’t find you the gas bas return to the poison cloud area to take more damage.
Rinse and repeat process.

Beholders are very susceptible to backstabbing. I have found Valygar equipped with Celestial fury to be very good at picking off lone beholders. Since there is a good chance they will be stunned even if he does not finish them in one strike he has time to get a few more punches in usually enough to kill them outright.

Beholders have interesting behavior patterns. If any party member is visible a beholder will immediately start pelting your people with their vision attacks and only from a distance but when close will attempt to bite your party. Interestingly enough beholders USUALLY prefer to not waste their vision attacks on summoned creatures so if you summon up a group of creatures a group of Mordenkainen’s swords for example the beholders will prefer to bite them rather than fry them. Just keep an invisible party member nearby to direct the swords in their attack.

Mind Flayers:
I really hate these things.

Personally I never found chaotic commands to be useful (of course I can’t get spell trap to work either)

Mind flayer magic resistance usually prohibits the same cloudkill tactics that are so effective on beholders. However that does not mean the cloudkill tactic is completely useless.

Mind flayers tend to hang around circular but completely empty rooms doing nothing except petting their pet umber hulks. If a fight with mind flayers the hulks are as equally deadly with their ability to confuse. Slip down mind flayer hallways under cover of shadow (again Valyger is very god for this task) and open their doors. Opening a door while in shadows causes the message that you are leaving the shadows but you don’t actually. Using the same methods for beholders, have you mage go invisible and slip down to the room with the flayers and the hulks and launch a cloudkill into the room. It is probably best to be ready to slam the door shut on them. Mind flayers tend to be smarter than beholders and occasionally come looking for the source of the poisonous cloud and are rarely completely fooled by invisibility. Once the hulks are dead it is time to go squid hunting.

Start summoning. Undead, Mordenkainen’s swords and invisible stalkers are all immune to all forms of mind control and cannot be intelligence drained. Despite this mind flayers seem able to dismantle a skeleton pretty fast. Their job is not to kill the mindflayers but to keep them busy or bottlenecked in those lovely hallways. While the flayers are fighting the summoned creatures your party is using every ranged weapon you have to kill them. Have as many scrolls and spells of dispel magic available to de-charm or de-confuse any of your people who get zapped by the flayers.

Like every other dangerous creature it is better to lure one or two of these things out at a time rather then to charge into a room full of them.

Faceman · 10-01-2003, 05:58 PM

If you really want to use the Staff of Cheese a.k.a. Staff of the Magi do the following (preferably with a Fighter/Mage/Thief): (this works on any enemy that cannot naturally see through invis like KuaToas can)
1. whack the Beholder
2. reequip the staff
repeat until Beholder is dead.
Every time you reequip the staff you go invis again and so you won't get hit.
As for the Flayers: Remember that they are physically weak. So if you can't resist their psionics go for melee. A good (i.e. well equipped) tank will not take more than 3-4 hits to kill a Flayer while missile damage (though great if you manage to avoid the dominations and stuns) will be too weak to kill them before they suck the brains of a stunned party member. For single Flayers or as a starter backstab them. A solid backstab should be sufficient to kill a Flayer or at least get him "yellow".

[ 10-01-2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

Tobold · 10-02-2003, 01:16 AM

Chaotic Commands + Enrage (Beserker) + Haste = Dead Mind Flayer

10-01-2003, 01:27 PM	#1
Tyrion Quintesson Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: straight outta Kålltorp Age: 37 Posts: 1,081	I have always had major problems with beholders and mind flayers. I was too lazy to learn how to beat them when last i played through so i either cheated or came back at higher level. now when i play a new game all over i plan not to cheat but i really need some help with these baddies. beholders just seem to overwhelm me with their rays and mindflayers just seem to dominate me or simply kill me...haven´t even thought of installing the enhancements for them included in the tactics mod glad for any tips and hints! __________________ ...with the Bible and the Uzi as weapons

10-01-2003, 01:45 PM	#2
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 42 Posts: 2,248	Well, there's cheesy stuff and there's genuine tactics what do you need? cheesy: Beholders: Use the Shield of Balduran (available at the Adventurer's Mart from Deirdre, bonus merchant) or the Cloak of Mirroring (also known as the Cloak of cheese) Mind Flayers: block the doorway with an invisible char and kill them with missiles . actual tactics: Mind Flayers: Cast chaotic comman on your party and use mainly missile weapons. Have your tanks drink potions of genius (INT bonus) and dispose of the brainsuckers QUICKLY!. You can also use a single ranged character with boots of speed/haste + free action + charm protection to "circlestrafe" them with a bow or a throwing axe/hammer/dart. Beholders: protect your party as well as possible and hammer them down quickly. Stay out of the way with your weaker spellcasters as they won't break their MR anyway and cast spell protections like Spell turning or Globe of Invulnerability. If present kill Elder Orbs first because they can cast Imprisonment. edit: connection broke down only half got posted [ 10-01-2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ] __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-01-2003, 02:06 PM	#4
Tyrion Quintesson Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: straight outta Kålltorp Age: 37 Posts: 1,081	but mind flayeers seem to just kill you suddenly, how do they do it. i haven´t been able to find a spell description... by the way, where can i find that cloak? don´t really know where it is __________________ ...with the Bible and the Uzi as weapons

10-01-2003, 02:11 PM	#6
SillySorcerer Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: September 19, 2003 Location: USA Age: 60 Posts: 38	For mind flayers, I second the Chaotic Commands spell and skeleton warriors strategy. The mind flayers level was kicking my arse until I changed tactics. The Beholders I still havn't completely figured out-- I used to summon a bunch of creatures to serve as a distraction, cast haste on my party, have the warriors rush in with weapons flailing and have the spellcasters cast the most devstating area effect spells they possessed-- And I frequently got annihilated. Lately, though, I have been giving my cleric the best equipment available (free action, mind barrior, etc.), having him cast globe of blades spell (or whatever it is called), and then attack by himself while the rest of the party uses ranged weapons. Usually, he can whip several beholders all on his own. Not always, though, 'cause they're tough. [ 10-01-2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: SillySorcerer ] __________________ Show me the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength and I\'ll call it an RPG.

10-01-2003, 02:11 PM	#7
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 42 Posts: 2,248	Mind Flayers have the ability to drain Intelligence (Devour Brain). They will drain 3INT each hit (Melee only) and if you have 0 INT you are dead (same goes for strenghth draining or level draining). So if you stay away from them and use missiles nobody will get hurt. The effect is only temporary so wait for it to expire before you go to fight more Illithids. In BGT (mod) there is a new item (don't know if it is from another mod actually) which negates INT drain. This is overpowered I think as it makes the dreaded Mind Flayer the laughstock of the well-equipped adventurer (as does the original Cloak of Cheese with the Beholder). __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-01-2003, 01:54 PM	#3
Xen Symbol of Moradin Join Date: June 5, 2002 Location: Slovenia,Ljubljana Age: 36 Posts: 8,554	Beholders:Shield Of Balduran Mind Flayers:True Sight,Potions Of Genius,Chaotic Commands,Ring Of Free Action... They have high MR(Magic Resistance) but Sunfire igonres MR. [img]smile.gif[/img] Skeleton Warriors are also handy.

10-01-2003, 05:42 PM	#8
IronDragon Elminster Join Date: January 16, 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 58 Posts: 419	I know my techniques are often cheesey but they do work. Beholders: to deal with these nasties you need either the Staff of the Magi or a large collection of potions of invisibility, and a fully charged wand of cloudkill. (boots of speed are helpful here as well) Turn off your AI and sequester the majority of your party well away from the action and make your mage invisible wither with the staff or with potions (the staff works much better.) sneak up on your party of beholders and gauths, when you get them in sight back up just enough for the fog of war to obscure them, preferable near a corner and sick a cloudkill on them. If you have the staff re-install it before the cloud explodes and the beholders will have no way to target you. If you are using the potion method scoot around the corner as fast as possible drinking a new potion of invisibility as you go. The beholders may wander around searching for their attacker but will not spot you as long as you remain invisible, if they can’t find you the gas bas return to the poison cloud area to take more damage. Rinse and repeat process. Beholders are very susceptible to backstabbing. I have found Valygar equipped with Celestial fury to be very good at picking off lone beholders. Since there is a good chance they will be stunned even if he does not finish them in one strike he has time to get a few more punches in usually enough to kill them outright. Beholders have interesting behavior patterns. If any party member is visible a beholder will immediately start pelting your people with their vision attacks and only from a distance but when close will attempt to bite your party. Interestingly enough beholders USUALLY prefer to not waste their vision attacks on summoned creatures so if you summon up a group of creatures a group of Mordenkainen’s swords for example the beholders will prefer to bite them rather than fry them. Just keep an invisible party member nearby to direct the swords in their attack. Mind Flayers: I really hate these things. Personally I never found chaotic commands to be useful (of course I can’t get spell trap to work either) Mind flayer magic resistance usually prohibits the same cloudkill tactics that are so effective on beholders. However that does not mean the cloudkill tactic is completely useless. Mind flayers tend to hang around circular but completely empty rooms doing nothing except petting their pet umber hulks. If a fight with mind flayers the hulks are as equally deadly with their ability to confuse. Slip down mind flayer hallways under cover of shadow (again Valyger is very god for this task) and open their doors. Opening a door while in shadows causes the message that you are leaving the shadows but you don’t actually. Using the same methods for beholders, have you mage go invisible and slip down to the room with the flayers and the hulks and launch a cloudkill into the room. It is probably best to be ready to slam the door shut on them. Mind flayers tend to be smarter than beholders and occasionally come looking for the source of the poisonous cloud and are rarely completely fooled by invisibility. Once the hulks are dead it is time to go squid hunting. Start summoning. Undead, Mordenkainen’s swords and invisible stalkers are all immune to all forms of mind control and cannot be intelligence drained. Despite this mind flayers seem able to dismantle a skeleton pretty fast. Their job is not to kill the mindflayers but to keep them busy or bottlenecked in those lovely hallways. While the flayers are fighting the summoned creatures your party is using every ranged weapon you have to kill them. Have as many scrolls and spells of dispel magic available to de-charm or de-confuse any of your people who get zapped by the flayers. Like every other dangerous creature it is better to lure one or two of these things out at a time rather then to charge into a room full of them. __________________ Ever notice that "What The Hell!" is always the right decision?- Marilyn Monroe

10-01-2003, 05:58 PM	#9
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 42 Posts: 2,248	If you really want to use the Staff of Cheese a.k.a. Staff of the Magi do the following (preferably with a Fighter/Mage/Thief): (this works on any enemy that cannot naturally see through invis like KuaToas can) 1. whack the Beholder 2. reequip the staff repeat until Beholder is dead. Every time you reequip the staff you go invis again and so you won't get hit. As for the Flayers: Remember that they are physically weak. So if you can't resist their psionics go for melee. A good (i.e. well equipped) tank will not take more than 3-4 hits to kill a Flayer while missile damage (though great if you manage to avoid the dominations and stuns) will be too weak to kill them before they suck the brains of a stunned party member. For single Flayers or as a starter backstab them. A solid backstab should be sufficient to kill a Flayer or at least get him "yellow". [ 10-01-2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ] __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-02-2003, 01:16 AM	#10
Tobold Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 14	Chaotic Commands + Enrage (Beserker) + Haste = Dead Mind Flayer

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