Fighting terrorism

[Timber Loftis]

Gnarf's solution works better in theory than in practice. In the real world, it's impossible. :shrug:

[Grendal]

Ya TL I know it is, but wouldnt it be nice if everyone could mind their own buisness and get along?

[Faceman]

So you're telling me that this mother would still bring up her child to be a suicide bomber even if there was the opportunity for him to go to college and become a well respected member of his society?
I don't think so. All people - may it be in the US in Europe or in Afghanistan - are looking for a purpose in their life.
The main problem is that there is so little choice for people in the poor countries and that martyrdom seems the easy way out.
I am strongly convinced that if there was a solution to the poor living conditions in these countries terrorism would be minimized. I'm not saying it would be extinct. People still bear hatred and with some it would overcome their joy of a better life. But it would be on the decrease and people would stop to bring up their children with the hatred they now have no more use for thus decreasing the problem further.
I am very well aware that the solution is NOT to donate everybody a truckload of Coke and a Chevy Blazer. This is why I said I would *simplify* in my first post. It's about having a life you (or the hopefully-not-to-be-terrorist) consider worth living and therefore hesitating to kill yourself and others.
Happy people seldomly kill.
Of course there is a minority who does NOT want to come to an agreement in every conflict. The issue at hand is that it is not overruled by the majority but rather followed by them because they are the only ones who promise a solution.
What I'm trying to say is: A Volvo won't convince Bin Laden but what is he going to do alone when all his countrymen are driving off to the mall in their Volvos instead of bombing a market in TelAviv (again I am aware that the thought of shopping malls and Volvos in the Westbank is unrealistic and ridicolous - bear with me, it's just a metaphor)

[ 06-25-2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Faceman ]

[Grendal]

Every thing I say on here is an IMO. But hey, isnt that what a message board is for? [img]smile.gif[/img]
1)Do I think she would still bring her child up as a suicde bomber?...Yes.
2)All people - may it be in the US in Europe or in Afghanistan - are looking for a purpose in their life.....No....people in third world countries are looking for food not purpose. (Afghanistan example)
3)The main problem is that there is so little choice for people in the poor countries and that martyrdom seems the easy way out....No...martyrdom is not an "easy way out",they arent killing themselves because of a jilted love or they owe a bookie ten thousand dollars. Its a belief that their dying will better thier cause (whatever that cause may be). THIS is their life purpose that you keep refering to.
4)People still bear hatred and with some it would overcome their joy of a better life. But it would be on the decrease and people would stop to bring up their children with the hatred they now have no more use for decreasing the problem further....again I disagree ... The people that still bear the hatred would continue to launch attacks against thier enemies---> therefore...there would (in the Isreali/Palistinian conflict) continually be counter attacks---> therefore... it will only perpetuate the hatred that has been going on for generations.
The western world has been trying to wipe out predjudice and hatred against blacks, asians, Pakistanis, etc..for longer than my lifetime and we live in a more "fortunate" part of the world with a "better life". If we cant do it here what makes you think they can do it there when thier Hatred runs deep enough that they will sacrifice their own children in the name of thier cause? A better lifestyle will not solve any problems. IMO

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Grendal: Every thing I say on here is an IMO. But hey, isnt that what a message board is for? [img]smile.gif[/img] No....people in third world countries are looking for food not purpose. (Afghanistan example)

That's why we should give them food (i.e. better economical possibilities to make the food issue resolvable)

No...martyrdom is not an "easy way out",they arent killing themselves because of a jilted love or they owe a bookie ten thousand dollars. Its a belief that their dying will better thier cause (whatever that cause may be). THIS is their life purpose that you keep refering to.

They are killing themselves because they have no food and consider themselves oppressed which they believe will stop for their children/fellow men if they continue their attacks.

The western world has been trying to wipe out predjudice and hatred against blacks, asians, Pakistanis, etc..for longer than my lifetime and we live in a more "fortunate" part of the world with a "better life". If we cant do it here what makes you think they can do it there when thier Hatred runs deep enough that they will sacrifice their own children in the name of thier cause? A better lifestyle will not solve any problems. IMO

We CAN do it here. There is still SOME hatred, there are still people who lynch Afro-Americans, there are still people who kill immigrants because they hate them so unbelievably much but these people are less than they were some decades ago.
If you'd asked white Americans what they thought of black Americans in 1960
and if you ask them now I think you'll notice a change towards the better.


You are right that as long as there are counter-attacks the conflict will not stop. But once one side reduces the attacks the other will too naturally.
If there is proper education children are not only brought up by their parents but by their teachers too and that could make (at least I pray it could) a difference.
I agree that you can't convince a fanatic but you CAN convince people before they become fanatic and this is what IMO has to be done to ensure lasting quell of terrorism/fanatism.
I agree however that a major problem is that in these countries killing has not been outlawed socially as it has been in our countries.
There has been a whole lot of terrorism in Europe of the 1920ies and it all changed for the worse when governments that resorted mainly to violence (namely Hitler in Germany, Dollfuss in Austria, franco in Spain, Mussolini in Italy, ...) took over. But with sensible governments who seek non-violent solutions terrorism will decrease IMO.

[Animal]

I see a lot of confusion here about the term "terrorist." It seems to be a much broader term now than it was five years ago.

Terrorism could be stopped and most likely will, but humans as a species need to evolve a lot further before that ever happens.

The majority of terrorists or 'suicide bombers' aren't doing it because they have nothing better to do, or because they don't have a Volvo! [img]smile.gif[/img] Terrorism is a form of war, it just never got encompassed into that whole "declaration of war" thing. The suicide bomber sees his death as an hounorable sacrifice and most if not all are happy to die in the name of their God, and there in lies the problem. Religion.

The nature or root of the majority of terrorist acts lie in religous confilct, not physical or material possessions or the lack of. Material possesions mean nothing to these people, they've never had them, they don't know what they are, and they couldn't give a skinny rat's ass if the ever have them.

[Grendal]

Exactly what Ive been trying to say Animal. I think Im going to have to take some sort o course to improve my "point getting across" abilities!

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Grendal: [QB] Every thing I say on here is an IMO. But hey, isnt that what a message board is for? [img]smile.gif[/img] 1)Do I think she would still bring her child up as a suicde bomber?...Yes.[QB]

I might be wrong here, but I don't think that any mothers would breed/raise their sons (and sometimes daughters) to become suicide-bombers or terrorist. As a matter of fact, mothers are the most protective people I know of. To become a suicide-bomber or a terrorist is a choice made by the individual and not their parents. The fact that Hamas offers economic aid to their families makes would-be bombers think that they're helping out their folks in the process as well.

2)All people - may it be in the US in Europe or in Afghanistan - are looking for a purpose in their life.....No....people in third world countries are looking for food not purpose. (Afghanistan example)

Hunger doesn't make people terrorists, just thieves at most.

4)People still bear hatred and with some it would overcome their joy of a better life. But it would be on the decrease and people would stop to bring up their children with the hatred they now have no more use for decreasing the problem further....again I disagree ... The people that still bear the hatred would continue to launch attacks against thier enemies---> therefore...there would (in the Isreali/Palistinian conflict) continually be counter attacks---> therefore... it will only perpetuate the hatred that has been going on for generations. The western world has been trying to wipe out predjudice and hatred against blacks, asians, Pakistanis, etc..for longer than my lifetime and we live in a more "fortunate" part of the world with a "better life". If we cant do it here what makes you think they can do it there when thier Hatred runs deep enough that they will sacrifice their own children in the name of thier cause? A better lifestyle will not solve any problems. IMO

On the contrary it would. By better lifestyle I don't mean giving them Volvo's or anything, rather to give them the chance to be normal citizens like you and me; to give them a decent chance of getting a job, to make them able to drive around freely ( in their Volvo's )without being stopped by soldiers at every crossroad and giving their children a chance to go to school regularly.

Im mearly trying to point out that these people THINK differant than us.

As I posted somewhere here before; they're not aliens, their mind doesn't function differently from ours. I can almost bet a dollar, no two dollars, that they have exactly the same hope and dreams like any of us. Circumstances have made them make the decisions they do and neither you nor me can guarantee that we wouldn't do what they do if we were in their shoes.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Animal: The majority of terrorists or 'suicide bombers' aren't doing it because they have nothing better to do, or because they don't have a Volvo! [img]smile.gif[/img] Terrorism is a form of war, it just never got encompassed into that whole "declaration of war" thing. The suicide bomber sees his death as an hounorable sacrifice and most if not all are happy to die in the name of their God, and there in lies the problem. Religion.

On a interresting sidenote here, I saw a documentary, on Discovery IIRC, where they claimed that most suicide bombers weren't very religious to begin with, they were just rootless and a bit suicidal teens who were fed up with their own situation and the terrorist organizations offered them an alternative.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Stratos: quote: Originally posted by Animal: The majority of terrorists or 'suicide bombers' aren't doing it because they have nothing better to do, or because they don't have a Volvo! [img]smile.gif[/img] Terrorism is a form of war, it just never got encompassed into that whole "declaration of war" thing. The suicide bomber sees his death as an hounorable sacrifice and most if not all are happy to die in the name of their God, and there in lies the problem. Religion.

On a interresting sidenote here, I saw a documentary, on Discovery IIRC, where they claimed that most suicide bombers weren't very religious to begin with, they were just rootless and a bit suicidal teens who were fed up with their own situation and the terrorist organizations offered them an alternative. [/QUOTE]Depends on the organisation in question. I stand by my original assesment.