Religion Thread IV

[the sauceman]

Indeed..............................
soooooo...how bout them Dodgers?
I would add something useful to the thread, but I (unfortunantly) dont know too muuch about the two religions youre talking about...

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by the sauceman: Indeed.............................. soooooo...how bout them Dodgers? I would add something useful to the thread, but I (unfortunantly) dont know too muuch about the two religions youre talking about...

Well, I assume you mean Buddhism and Hindu??
Well, at least on the subject we were on about them (their paths):

Basic Beliefs of Buddhism
The basic beliefs of Buddhism can be demonstrated in the following concepts and doctrines:

The Four Noble Truths
The First Noble Truthis the existence of suffering. Birth is painful and death is painful; disease and old age are painful. Not having what we desire is painful and having what we do not desire is also painful.

The Second Noble Truth is the cause of suffering. It is the craving desire for the pleasures of the senses, which seeks satisfaction now here, now there; the craving for happiness and prosperity in this life and in future lives.

The Third Noble Truth is the ending of suffering. To be free of suffering one must give up, get rid of, extinguish this very craving, so that no passion and no desire remain.

The Fourth Noble Truth leads to the ending of all pain by way of the Eightfold Path.

The Eightfold Path
The first step on that path is Right Views: You must accept the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.

The second is Right Resolve: You must renounce the pleasures of the senses; you must harbor no ill will toward anyone and harm no living creature.

The third is Right Speech: Do not lie; do not slander or abuse anyone. Do not indulge in idle talk.

The fourth is Right Behavior: Do not destroy any living creature; take only what is given to you; do not commit any unlawful sexual act.

The fifth is Right Occupation: You must earn your livelihood in a way that will harm no one.

The sixth is Right Effort: You must resolve and strive heroically to prevent any evil qualities from arising in you and to abandon any evil qualities that you may possess. Strive to acquire good qualities and encourage those you do possess to grow, increase, and be perfected.

The seventh is Right Contemplation: Be observant, strenuous, alert, contemplative, and free of desire and of sorrow.

The eighth is Right Meditation: When you have abandoned all sensuous pleasures, all evil qualities, both joy and sorrow, you must then enter the four degrees of meditation, which are produced by concentration.

Buddhist Precepts
There are five precepts taught by Buddhism that all Buddhists should follow:

Kill no living thing.
Do not steal.
Do not commit adultery.
Tell no lies.
Do not drink intoxicants or take drugs.
Other precepts apply only to monks and nuns:

Eat moderately and only at the appointed time.
Avoid that which excites the senses.
Do not wear adornments.
Do not sleep in luxurious beds.
Accept no silver or gold.

Basic Beliefs of Hinduism
Hinduism is based on the concept that human and animal spirits reincarnate, or come back to earth to live many times in different forms. The belief that souls move up and down an infinite hierarchy depending on the behaviors they practiced in their life is visible in many of the Hindu societal policies. The caste system survives and charity towards others is unheard of because each individual deserves to be in the social class they were born in. A person is born into the highest class because they behaved well in a past life, and a person is born into poverty and shame because of misbehaviors in a past life.

Today, a Hindu can be polytheistic (more than one god), monotheistic (one god), pantheistic (god and the universe are one), agnostic (unsure if god exists), or atheistic (no god) and still claim to be Hindu. This open theology makes it difficult to discuss basic beliefs since there are many ideas about what Hinduism means. However, these universal ideas must be mentioned.

Central to Hinduism are the concepts of reincarnation, the caste system, merging with brahman (or the ultimate reality), finding morality, and reaching Nibbana (Nirvana- the peaceful escape from the cycle of reincarnation).

Religious documents include Sruti, (what is heard) and Smriti, (what is remembered). The Sruti include deeply religious things communicated to a seer and recorded. The Vedas, the religious writings, include mantras (hymns of praise), brahmanas (sacrificial rituals) and upanishads (108 sacred teachings). The Smriti include the law (books of laws), puranas (myths, stories, legends) and epics (sets of holy myths including Ramayana and Mahabharata).

The Hindu paths to salvation include the way of works (rituals), the way of knowledge (realization of reality and self-reflection), and the way of devotion (devotion to the god that you choose to follow). If the practitioner follows the paths of these ways, salvation can be achieved.

[*\Conan/*]

Good post Talthyr Malkaviel!

Moksa: The 4th theory of castes. Meaning freedom from the pursuit of any material goal.

[Gabrielles blades]

Originally posted by Yorick: [/qb]

So does this mean Planescape is your bible, and Black Isle your priest? How are you different from anyone following a religion?
You say you prefer people to make a personal choice. How is your decision any different from someone who reads a religious tome? You are regurgitating fictional hypothesis created by humans. No different to say a Scientologist believing fantasy writer L.Ron Hubbards writings.

So why be so critical?

Christianity is one faith, that when practiced as it's preached leads to an individuals freedom from mans controls. True freedom. That's been my experience. Never been freer.[/QB][/QUOTE]
__________________________________________________ ____________

I dont think of planescape torment as my bible, nor do i believe/worship any gods or godesses in that universe, i suppose that yes i did take an idea from this game to use as the foundation of my belief, but that doesnt mean i follow any teachings from the game.

I suppose it could be considered a regurgitation of their ideas, but there are many differences between my personal belief system and that of the planescape torment universe. For instance, in the game, they state that when you die you go to whatever plane most closely represents your alignment, i do not believe in any form of life eternal and so would have to say that when you die you cease to exist.

I do however believe in the power of belief to create gods or planes of existance or simple fundamental truths. There is a plane of the idea "chair" we all think of numerous types of chairs and we all believe in chairs, so there is a plane devoted solely to the concept of the chair and it will exist so long as people believe in chairs.

The problem i find with nearly all religions (christians especially) is that they do not practice what they preach, and for whatever reason they insist of forcing their beliefs upon you. There are far too many wars fought over religion; this is why i wish there wasnt a faith system of churches - because their existance leads to war. I would hope that if everyone kept their beliefs to themselves in their own homes and worshipped only there, that there would be no wars fought over religion.

*edit* didnt get the quote thing to work right so added line between mine and his

[ 05-03-2002, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Gabrielles blades ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Gabrielles blades: The problem i find with nearly all religions (christians especially) is that they do not practice what they preach, and for whatever reason they insist of forcing their beliefs upon you. There are far too many wars fought over religion; this is why i wish there wasnt a faith system of churches - because their existance leads to war. I would hope that if everyone kept their beliefs to themselves in their own homes and worshipped only there, that there would be no wars fought over religion.

True, some practitioners of various religions do not "practice what they preach"; however, this cannot apply to all practitioners. You also say "nearly all religions", so which religions have no hypocrites?

Christians were charged with spreading the Gospel, or simply telling others their message. Being evangelical does not equate to forcing beliefs upon anyone. Have any of the Christians here tried to force anything on anyone?

Most wars throughout history have been non-religious. Are there far too many wars fought over non-religious reasons, also? Should we--can we--abandon all political and/or economic reasons that might lead to wars?

Unfortunately, no war is history has begun simply because of the existence of a church. Persecution, yes, but not a war.

If we all kept religious thoughts/lifestyles in our homes, then should we not also keep other lifestyle choices at home? Should goths be both only inside their house? Should I stop thinking about politics when I leave my threshold? If so, then no one would ever discuss anything and ideas could never be exchanged. A lack of idea exchange would lead to a lack of growth; I, personally, choose to grow.

I can understand you not liking religion. I, myself, am not religious. However, your arguments against religion/churches were, I felt, too generalized to have much merit. Most likely you won't like this post, but rest assured I mean no offense.

[the sauceman]

Talthyr.....
thank you very much for that informative post....
I am sorry that i am so ignorant of other religions, and am trying to broaden my horizons...
you are very knowledgable about these religions....
how did you come to know them so well?

[AzureWolf]

Originally posted by Azred: Unfortunately, no war is history has begun simply because of the existence of a church. Persecution, yes, but not a war.

You mean the crusades were just a figment of my imagination? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]

Azurewolf is right. There have been many wars that have been fought because of religion. Maybe it is not the historical reason for some of these battles, but it is the cause of the initial disharmony between the two peoples.

[Azred]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by Azred: Unfortunately, no war is history has begun simply because of the existence of a church. Persecution, yes, but not a war.

You mean the crusades were just a figment of my imagination? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]No, but they were not carried out for primarily religious reasons. "Freeing the Holy Land from the Muslim" was just the front used for wars of expansion and profit--control of the Holy Land meant control of trade routes to the Near and Far East.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by Azred: Unfortunately, no war is history has begun simply because of the existence of a church. Persecution, yes, but not a war.

You mean the crusades were just a figment of my imagination? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]No, but they were not carried out for primarily religious reasons. "Freeing the Holy Land from the Muslim" was just the front used for wars of expansion and profit--control of the Holy Land meant control of trade routes to the Near and Far East.[/QUOTE]Good on you Azred. Well said. Peoples religious beliefs were abused by those in power to achieve political ends.

And people blame religion. Religions which if were practiced properly by the world would result in world peace.

I wonder how many of these same people will claim that "guns don't kill people, people kill people"?